Commodore Peter Scott, CSC, RAN (Retired) joins Brendon Le Lievre for a Coach Conversation on Coaching as a leader, reflections on resilience, life as a sub mariner and the process of writing Running Deep.
About Peter
Joining the Royal Australian Navy as a seventeen-year-old Midshipman in 1983, Peter
Scott served in twenty different command and leadership appointments and rose over three decades to be the professional head of the Navy’s elite: the Submarine Arm. In all, he served in 10 submarines and 20 different command and leadership appointments over 34 years.
Now retired from full time service, Peter holds a Masters in Strategy and Management from the University of New South Wales, and a Masters in Coaching Psychology from the University of Sydney. With special interests in strategic leadership, resilience and transition, Peter now works as an executive coach to help today’s leaders develop, perform and succeed. His memoir Running Deep. An Australian Submarine Life, was published by Fremantle Press in April 2023.
When not coaching or writing, Peter can be found on the trails running ultra-marathons or relaxing at home with his family.
You can connect with Peter on LinkedIn, through his website – https://peterscott.au/ and you can buy his book through – https://fremantlepress.com.au/books/running-deep-an-australian-submarine-life/
Transcript
Peter Scott
[00:00:00] Brendon Le Lievre: Hello and welcome to the Coach Conversations podcast. The podcast where coaches have conversations about all things coaching. I am Brendon Le Lievre and today I’m joined by retired Navy Commodore Peter Scott, CSC. Uh, welcome Peter and how did you get started with coaching?
[00:00:23] Peter Scott, CSC: Thanks Brendon. Uh, it was a slow start for me, uh, but probably first formally introduced to coaching when I was serving in the Navy and, and working as a, a senior executive there.
Uh, and took on, uh, a particular role and took on an executive coach at that time. And, uh, not long after that sent myself off to do, uh, a level one coaching course through IECL and it was a handful of years before I was able to actually do any formal coaching because it, it, I really didn’t have room for it um, when I was still serving in the Navy, uh, I did make room to do another couple of courses along the way and then when I, when I left Navy in 2017, Um, by that stage I decided that, um, coaching was not only great for me, it might be something that I, I could be good at as well and, uh, so have found ways to, to coach formally since, since leaving the Navy half a dozen years ago.
Yep.
[00:01:38] Brendon Le Lievre: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think that’s great for you and that’s definitely how I feel about it. I feel quite privileged sometimes when I’m getting to coach. What is it that you enjoy about coaching?
[00:01:53] Peter Scott, CSC: So, I, I describe it to people as being, um, challenging but equally satisfying. And, you know, it, it can be almost inevitably is, difficult to hold that space for the person you’re coaching. Um, not only understand for yourself what’s, what’s going on for them and around them, but, but also help them understand what’s going on for them and, and around them. Um, so, you know, I don’t find it easy on any given day in, in fact, If I find myself a little too relaxed, sometimes that’s a bit of a warning that, hey, maybe I’m not paying the right level of attention to what I’m doing or working hard enough for my client.
But it’s also very satisfying, um, not continuously, just occasionally and often surprisingly, when, when you see, uh, you know, your coachee come to some realisation or better place. Um, you know, it, it does often take me by surprise, but it’s always a great surprise and, and so very satisfying. So I like challenge and, and I enjoy that satisfaction.
Mm-hmm.
[00:03:28] Brendon Le Lievre: Yeah. I know people have commented to me previously, uh, it looks really easy when it’s when it’s being done well, coaching looks easy. And I said, if it looks easy, it’s actually really hard. Um-huh. That person is working really hard to make it look that easy. Uh, and, and, uh, it, it does, like you say, that awareness of everything that’s going on, I’ve just just started some coach supervision training cause I’m going to be become a coach supervisor.
Right. Which is very, very interesting around creating opportunities for reflective practice for coaches. And, uh, that’s, you know, even a, another level up around hold yourself, hold the system, hold the space. Um, so that’s, that’s really exciting. But also, yeah, a little bit daunting as well.
[00:04:20] Peter Scott, CSC: Um, so, so I share that apprehension because I’m, I’ve got myself down to do a course, a supervision course in the third quarter of this year, so just a couple of months away. Lovely. Um, yeah, I, uh, I find myself perhaps not surprisingly wondering if I’ve got the depth of experience that I need to do that, but, uh, uh, I guess I have convinced myself that I might, and therefore I’ll, I’ll go ahead and, um, give that a crack and, and see how it goes.
Yeah.
[00:04:56] Brendon Le Lievre: Yeah, it’s, it’s been interesting starting with that coach supervision training because my only engagement with supervision has been for myself. Mm-hmm. Um, and my supervisor has been sort of showing me a little bit, uh, behind the curtain, so to speak, in recent sessions around how and what um, she’s been doing.
Yeah. Right. But the feedback that I got from the first real practice, you know, in the training, supervision was, um, more space, more, more silence. So a lot of that early reflective work has already been done and that really surprised me because I thought I’d left a good amount of space, uhhuh, uh, and yet the person said I would’ve liked a little more, little more reflection time.
And it’s like, oh, it really isn’t about what you know, or what your experience is with coaching. Um, and that one line that they said, which I really liked was if you were feeling judged, ask yourself, who is doing the judging? Because it’s not us. So that, that struck a chord with me as well. I was like, oh, it’s just me judging me and maybe I should just put that to one side and be present and connect with another human being, Uhhuh.
So I’ll be keen to hear how you go with that and what you, what you take away from that. And I think if nothing else, it just makes you a better coach, right?
[00:06:22] Peter Scott, CSC: Right. And, and I don’t necessarily have, um, Uh, any set ambition to take my work, you know, heavily towards supervision. Um, if in the first instance it just makes me a better coach, then, then that’s okay.
[00:06:40] Brendon Le Lievre: Um, I, I know you’ve just released a book, so I’d like to touch on the book. Yeah. Uh, what’s it called? What’s it about? What was the process like writing it? How many more questions do you want in one go, but go where you need to.
[00:06:56] Peter Scott, CSC: So what’s it called? Uh, it’s called Running Deep an Australian Submarine Life.
Uh, what’s it about?
It’s a memoir. So it covers my, my naval career, uh, from youthful lad through to pretty experienced and, and quite senior, uh, leader in, in the Navy. Uh, submarines were my trade through that time. Um, and I wrote it because for me, uh, you know, living and working in submarines is, is a very normal, um, thing to do.
It’s, it’s been, you know, a large part of my professional and adult life, but I know that for most Australians, it’s, it’s an exotic and a largely unknowable way of life, and it’s really hard to imagine what that might be like. And it’s really easy to get that wrong and misunderstand what it might be like.
Uh, so, you know, I wrote it to offer people some insight into a, a pretty rare existence. And I think, um, you know, people comment on the, the timing. I didn’t time it, I timed it. I wrote it when I could write it. Um, but of course there’s a lot of discussion in, um, in Australian society at the moment about submarines with the move to nuclear submarine, nuclear powered submarine capability and so on. So it’s pretty timely that people are always, not always, a lot of people are individually interested, intrigued by submarines. Uh, but now there’s this sort of populate intrigued as well. So hopefully it, uh, it will inform and educate in that space.
I knew I was heading off into uncharted territory when I, um, decided to write this book. So I actually got a book coach who knew? Um, and that was a great. Uh, decision to go out and find a book coach.
And I found a, a wonderful book coach Kelly Irving, who runs a tremendous community called The Expert Author Academy. And it’s this community of authors and, and aspiring authors. Um, and that was really important part of writing the book just because it’s such an isolated, um, process. Uh, and knowing that I had you know, friends, colleagues, people that I could bounce stuff off, people going through the same sort of, uh, pain and misery, um, was a, was a really important part of, of getting through. And, and, and also the individual coaching that I got, um, was what really allowed me to get through to. Um, signing with a publisher, um, which was a, a huge milestone in that whole process, but a learning experience all the way through.
Yeah.
[00:09:56] Brendon Le Lievre: Mm-hmm. And I’m interested, as you were remembering, reflecting, going through the coaching, what did you, what realisations did you have about your career and how you’ve navigated that?
[00:10:12] Peter Scott, CSC: Yeah, so reflection’s a, a good word because, you know, it’s a hugely writing a memoir, hugely refre reflective practice.
And, uh, I went to a lot of effort to, you know, take myself back to life in my twenties or life in that submarine or, and really try to relive and re-experience those, those events and times so that I could then go, okay, there’s, there’s what happened. Uh, there’s, there’s how it felt, there’s what it meant.
And then select the stories that I would tell with the book and, and, um, be pretty clear about, you know, what meaning I was, I was offering as I told those stories. So, Uh, one of the things that, that reflection strengthened in me and probably crystallized a bit, was a notion of myself that I have of, of, um, myself as an explorer, someone who is willing to set off in a, in a direction, uh, perhaps a challenging direction perhaps no real clear end point, but willing to set off and see what I discover along the way. And, uh, you know, just writing the book was, was one of those, uh, explorations. Um, and I think, uh, that sort of approach and that willingness has helped me, you know, move forward in the past. Um, you know, pick a direction, take a step, take another, see where it goes. Um, so that, that would be one. Um, and I think, you know, just on, on leadership, there was another parallel with writing the book. And that was, as I said, it, it was a never ending journey. You know, I, I had to learn how to, how to, uh, write, I had to learn how to pitch to a publisher, uh, how to then work with an editor and all the other people that come with a how to market a book and sell a book.
And, um, most of these things are not things that come naturally to me. Um, and, and in a way they’re things that, um, you know, as a submariner telling stories about what I did is not something I did for three and a half decades. Mm-hmm. Um, so quite some parallels there with leadership. I think, you know, a willingness to lean in, a willingness to explore, a willingness to make a few mistakes, um, all help in, um, you know, somebody’s journey as a leader as well.
So there are probably a couple of things that I sort of pulled out of writing the book and that process.
[00:13:25] Brendon Le Lievre: How have those insights influenced your, your coaching practice or your coaching approach?
[00:13:32] Peter Scott, CSC: Yeah. Uh, perhaps the, perhaps the thing that’s impacted my coaching and coaching approach the most is a little bit different.
Uh, And that is, and maybe this just comes with age, but the, the writing, the book was a real catalyst for it. Uh, I am far more self-accepting of who I have been at various parts of my life and who I am now, than I have been through most of my life. Um, I’ve always been pretty darn hard on myself. Pretty critical.
Um, you know, self-compassion is a lesson I learned late. Um, but having come to this point of, um, I think real self-acceptance gives me now a much stronger foundation for my coaching because it allows me to, sit in a room with the person that I’m coaching, but just get rid of myself. Just, you know, not have my own concerns or anxieties or worries, or pressures or judgment invading that space all the time.
Um, So I think for me, that’s a great thing for my, it’s a great thing for me writ large, but it’s a, it, it helps with the coaching no doubt as well.
[00:15:16] Brendon Le Lievre: The through line of the supervision training that I’ve been doing is who you are is how you supervise, and the extension is who you are, is how you coach. So yeah, really bring whatever we are bringing, we bring, um, and self-compassion is, is what we are bringing, I can see that having a real positive influence in the, in the coaching space as well, rather than some of those other things that you mentioned that pop up from time to time or may have popped up from time to time.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Writing is something that eludes me and I think it was interesting, you had to learn how to write. It’s like, well, I know how to, you know, type and I know how to, you know, put words on, on paper. But when it’s used in that way, and, uh, someone was talking to me about, you know, what, what stops you from writing Brendon?
Because it’s something I, I keep going back to. I’d like to write more. I’d like to write more. And I said, oh, there’s two things, uh, that stop me from writing I’ve worked out. The first is that I’m worried that people will read it and, um, think it’s not very good, and that gets in the way. Yep. And the second thing I’m worried about is that no one’s going to read it.
So this is paradox that I’m like, churning within me about, about writing and it’s like, well, you can’t have both of those, Brendan, so you’ve instantly got one of them. Right. It’s either you write it and people read it and go, well, that’s not very good, or, People don’t read it, in which case you just write more and eventually someone will pick it up.
So yeah, that is something I’d like to get to focus more on.
[00:16:54] Peter Scott, CSC: One of the, one of the beaut, and I might get it wrong, but one of the beaut bylines that I actually put up on the, the wall in front of me for a lot of the time I was writing, um, David Astel, who is a tremendous wordsmith and writes, um, columns in the papers and stuff.
I saw he’d written somewhere that, um, uh, the best writers feel and then write. Um, and that, that, um, really rang true for me because what I realised was that for a lot of what I was writing, I, I literally had to relive stuff and I had to feel it. In order to, to write it and, um, and to get away from a, um, you know, a script of the things I did into a narrative about, you know, what my life was like and what it meant and so on.
Um, So that, that, that feeling first was, for me was a really important part. And sometimes you just need those little clues. Oh yeah. If you’re gonna write this, well, you gotta feel it first and then describe what you’re feeling, um, and, and, uh, and move to, you know, all, all your sense and all that sort of stuff.
So, um, you know, and it was a very different style of writing for me. To anything I’ve done in the past. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
[00:18:26] Brendon Le Lievre: Mm-hmm. And while you were in submarines and, and leading and man managing and all, all the things that you’ve done in there, did you, and you were reflecting on that, did you identify opportunities or times you did take more of a coaching approach, even if it wasn’t sort of academically informed or times where you could have maybe taken more of a coaching approach and wished you’d had that, that knowledge about how to do that?
[00:18:59] Peter Scott, CSC: Yeah. Um, so I could definitely, you know, having done some formal coaching, because I did my masters at Sydney Uni as well before I wrote this book. And, um, so as I was casting back through, Um, my experience in Navy, not just, um, my leadership of others, but others, leadership of me as well.
I could definitely see areas where, or times when a coaching approach might have actually, uh, might have actually helped, um, but of course, Um, in a work situation, it doesn’t always work. You know, if you, if you’re in command, there are times when you simply need to exercise your authority and issue a command.
Um, but the more I understood about coaching, the more I saw that there might have been room to expand, you know, uh, e expand my coaching approach. Um, I I do compare um, so I had command of two different submarines in, in my time and they were very different commands becuse the, the, the submarines were doing different work and, and they were, they were different crews.
Um, and in one sense, I didn’t change my approach to command across the two, and that would be, um, So they both Collins class submarines. And the first day I served at Senior Collins class submarine was when I was in command. I’d done all my previous time on Oberon class submarines or British submarines and so on.
So I kind of knew, hey, I’ve, I’ve studied the systems on board here and I’ve studied the orders and procedures, but I’m not the expert here. I’m gonna have to rely on these people to, to do their stuff and, and that really helped me sort of sit back. As a commanding officer and allowed them to do their stuff for me to do my stuff.
Um, and I worked pretty well and, uh, it, I felt very uncomfortable for a lot of it, but it worked very well cause I had great people. And the second command, I thought, you know what? That that did go okay, but how far can you push it? And, and rather than just allowing them to do their stuff, um, I did, I think I did in retrospect, take a more coaching approach and, and challenge them with kind of a coaching approach as, you know, what more can you do? Um, how better might we do this? Um, and that got a, that got a great response from that ship’s company in particular. Um, and, you know, I, I was doing what I needed to do by way of setting overall direction, but, um, you know, how we got there, how quickly we got there, um, what we did along the way was, was kind of up to them and, uh, and worked very well.
And I wouldn’t have labeled that a coaching approach at the time, but, but it, it probably was. Mm-hmm.
[00:22:24] Brendon Le Lievre: Yeah, I remember when I went to my first coach training workshop, my realisation was I think there are elements of this that I’m already doing. I just don’t know how I’m doing it and therefore I can’t do it intentionally.
And therefore sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn’t cause I don’t get the timing right. Right. Um, but now that I know more about the theory and what have you. I I, to your point, you know, sometimes you just have to give the directive or the command, go and do that. Mm-hmm. Um, here’s the outcome, here’s the direction, here’s the, you know, mission, what have you.
And then sometimes it’s like, well, I, I can be more relaxed about some of that stuff. Or, you know, now that they’ve got that clear, I can coach about this. And I find that leaders, when I do coaching skills for leaders training, that’s something they’re really worried about. Is, well, when do I tell them what if they get it wrong?
And, um, it’s like, well, you can still tell, but you can tell less, you know? Um, unless there’s a real reason for telling. And, and, you know, people will be excited about the opportunity to come up with ways to do it better or to use their strengths or to be considered as part of the process, as opposed to do this, then do this, then do this, then yes.
Et cetera. Yeah. And it’s a real letting go for leaders often around, well, just asking questions. What, how does that get us anywhere? Right? Yeah. It’s like it’ll work out. Um, and, and it end. It’s not always going to work as well. Sometimes it’ll go clunk and you just go, all right, well, it went clunk next, um, Of course, I imagine going clunk in a submarine might not be, uh, as ideal.
That’s not a great analogy in that environment, is it?
[00:24:20] Peter Scott, CSC: Yeah. Well, I’ve had a few clunky days.
I think sometimes, uh, you know, that letting go piece, um, it can help if, if the leaders realise they’re still choosing the questions. Um, yeah, it’s a, it’s a very different approach. You’re just asking questions, but you get to choose the question. And, um, so one of the things I, I kind of don’t kid myself about, you know, I, um, I like to lead and I actually, for me, coaching is a different way of leading.
Um, so I, I don’t assume that it’s so passive that, you know, it, it, it lacks a leadership element. I’m, I’m, I’m quite clear that in coaching others and coaching other leaders, I am exercising leadership myself. Um, and that’s, uh, you know, that’s for me encouraging, but it’s also a bit cautionary, um, because I am choosing the questions.
So there’s a, there’s a, uh, there’s a responsibility there in, in choosing the right questions because as open as a question might be, I think every question is still a leading question in some, in some way.
[00:25:55] Brendon Le Lievre: Yeah. Leading to an answer, but also, Leading with as, as you say, is as a leader, which I, I quite like that perspective around it.
[00:26:06] Peter Scott, CSC: In fact, I haven’t, haven’t made that connection between the two words, but Yeah. And, and clearly, you know, the coachee gets to choose the answer. Um, but, but you’re asking the question, so there’s, there’s definitely, you’re definitely shaping things in that regard.
Yeah.
[00:26:25] Brendon Le Lievre: I like it when the, uh, Coachee says, well, that’s a good question, but I’d rather answer this question than, alright, well answer. Like, go on, man. That’s a good question. You should answer that question. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, and they sort of surprise themselves a little bit. It’s like, yeah, it’s all good.
You know, whichever question you want.
[00:26:49] Peter Scott, CSC: Right. And that’s great because that’s, that’s the coach are coaching themselves right now. Here’s a question I really should answer. Mm-hmm. Um,
[00:26:57] Brendon Le Lievre: Yeah. What themes are you noticing in your coaching at the moment?
[00:27:04] Peter Scott, CSC: Themes,
look, it, it might be, you know, the sort of season that we are working in, or it might be because I, I think I have a strength in it and, and perhaps they’ll look for, therefore look for it. But, um, I think. You know, individual resilience for leaders, um, just comes up again and again and again. Um, you know, helping leaders through today’s challenge, but through today’s challenge on the back of yesterday’s challenge, on the back of the day before is challenge.
Um, and helping them to, you know, lift to a place where they can. You know, operate at their peak, but, you know, sustain that. Um, and obviously that, that means not always operating at full tilt or absolute peak, but you know, sustainable, helping leaders find sustainable levels of peak performance, um, by often helping them, you know, focus on and take care of the, um, You know, the, the personal husbandry, looking after their health, looking after their wellbeing, getting their sleep, all that sort of stuff.
Um, it, you know, it just doesn’t go away. Um, but it does appear, you know, it, it appears to me very important over the last couple of years. Um, and, and on a positive note. I think that, you know, coming outta the back of Covid and stuff, there is a general, general, um, greater awareness that you can’t survive in, you know, high profile leadership positions if you’re not looking after yourself.
And there’s an acceptance of wider acceptance of, of people, you know, taking the time, taking the measures to do just that. Um, So I think it’s a, it’s a probably a healthy outcome from an unhealthy circumstance over the last couple of years.
[00:29:29] Brendon Le Lievre: Yeah, I like it. How do you, uh, do those things for yourself? Because I think as coaches, that’s often the important, and a very important thing as well was, you know, how do you do that personal husbandry for yourself?
What fills your cup up?
[00:29:46] Peter Scott, CSC: Yeah, I like, I like to run, um, and I’m, I’m a bit lame at the moment and that, uh, I know that affects my mood. Um, if I’m running well, I’m living well and I’m coaching well. Uh, but so I, I look to be pretty disciplined about getting a good start to every day.
Um, I do my best to be up at the same time every day, pretty much run through a a morning routine. That inevitably means getting out, um, for a run myself or getting out to the gym or getting out to my strength training with my crew or, or whatever it might be. Um, and of course, getting off to the good start in the morning is, is predicated on getting a, a good end to the day.
Um, and I actually find that’s where I have to exercise the most discipline is, okay, Scotty, it’s time to knock the working day on the head. Don’t push it any further, you know, um, settle into some time with the family, relax for a little bit. Get yourself off for a good night’s sleep, and then you can go out at all again tomorrow.
Um, so those front and back end of the days, those, those bookends. Um, really important. I, I, uh, I have in the past been better at, uh, building some meditation into the front end of my day. And, uh, it’s something I, I know I could, I could kind of lift and it would, it would help. Um, So, yeah, but that’s, that’s, that’s kind of the nuts and bolts.
Um, we, we, we live pretty healthily. Um, uh, I’m pretty much off the booze these days. Uh, my wife and daughter make sure that we eat very well, so, um, as in eat healthfully. So all those, all those foundational things, pretty important.
[00:31:55] Brendon Le Lievre: Yeah. Good to hear. I, uh, I agree with you on the mindfulness meditation type stuff.
It’s, it’s something that I, I know I get benefit from and I know that I should do more. And every time I do it again, I sort of have two realisations. The first is, um, if I hadn’t had done this, I wouldn’t realize how tired I actually am. Mm-hmm. So I stop and then I’m like, oh God, I’m, I really am carrying a lot of tiredness around and sort of layering it over with, with whatever, um, to keep going. And the second is, I really should do this more often because this is in this for me. And when I talk with people about resilience, that’s, that’s often what I start with. Now, as I say, it’s really easy to know all this stuff. Like there’s a good chance what we talk about, you are going to know 90 to 95% of it. There’s not really anything brand new. What, what you will find that you, uh, the benefit you’ll get from today is what are you gonna start doing, um, from what we talk about? Because there’s no way you’re doing everything that we talk about, even though you know it is good for you, and that that really helps.
Get people’s attention, I find around, okay, now I, I am gonna pay attention cause I thought, you know, I was pretty, I know all this resilience stuff. I know I should, you know, eat well, drink less, have lots of water, exercise, meditate, get to bed at a good time, et cetera, et cetera. It’s like, how many of those things are you actually doing, you know, not work late.
Um, especially when it’s at home and it’s virtual and it’s just there. Lots of people are like, I’ll just check my emails before I go to bed. And I’m think, would you drive into the office, um, pre having a device that you could check your work emails on at home and just check your emails before you went to bed?
You probably probably find you wouldn’t. So why are you doing it? Just cuz it’s there at the moment.
[00:33:55] Peter Scott, CSC: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I’m, um, my wife’s been rousing on me recently cause I’ve, I’ve been spending too much time on the, on the phone and it is not, it’s not on the phone, but it’s, it’s checking the insta and all this rubbish.
So, not, not that it’s, you know, it’s not rubbish of itself, but, um, when it starts to sort of, Uh, take on its own life. Um, you know, it’s gone a bit too far, so, you know, um, I’ve, I’ve got a great accountability coach here at home. I’m not paying her enough.
[00:34:37] Brendon Le Lievre: Someone said the other day that they like to reward themselves by looking at the big screen and the little screen after spending all day looking at the medium sized screen. And I’m like, yeah, that’s, that’s can be a little bit how it is, isn’t it? Let’s, um, let’s go and do something different. So it’s been, uh, recently we’ve just got a, a new puppy, a new dog, um, And that’s been quite nice as a bit of a distraction to get away from the screen, particularly for me and the, and the boys, my young boys.
So they come home and they just want to veg out and I’m like, Elsie, would love to see you. Let’s, uh, let’s go out in the backyard and throw the ball for half an hour. And they grizzle for a bit and then, um, into it, they do it for, yeah, 30 seconds and they’re like, this is great. And you’ve sort of gotta get them back in the house cause the sun set and it’s dark, cold.
It’s like, we gotta cook dinner, let’s go. They’re like, oh, but this is fun. I’m like, yeah, it’s fun. That’s, um,
[00:35:36] Peter Scott, CSC: yeah, they’re great. They, they genuinely demand your, your attention, don’t they? So, um, that’s good. We, we have uh, we have two dogs and uh, one is much more forward leaning. Then the other. And, uh, if, if we are sat on the couch for too long, she will, she’ll demand that, uh, someone plays with her for a bit.
Yeah, it’s good.
[00:36:00] Brendon Le Lievre: It is been, it’s been really good actually, for a variety of reasons. You know, if someone has a bit of a rough day at school or work or what have you, it’s like, just get out with the dog. Like just, there’ll be no, no concerns about anything from her. She’ll just be happy to see you and Right.
You know, um, you know, as long as you throw the ball or even, she’s just happy if you just go and stand in the middle of the lawn. It’s really funny if she, there’s no one out there, she won’t do anything. You just go and stand in the middle of the lawn and she’ll just run around, run around and do laps, and she thinks it’s great.
It’s like, what is going on there? Do you just, you just need an audience, do you? All right, well, that’s, that’s fine. We can do that. All right, great. But yeah, that’s been good fun, good fun. So there’s, and she pops in for coaching sessions and what have you, and cause 90% of 95% probably what I do, still virtual.
Um, yeah, right. I really like, even the training that I’m, I’m doing is, uh, is virtual and it meant that we had people from Australia, but we had New Zealand and um, China and India and you know, just people all around the world just connect in and, um, it’s, it’s great that we get those different cultural, um, backgrounds and diversity of experience and coaching issues just, they just show up. Um, Albania was represented as well. I had to have a look where Albania was on the map. I was like, I know roughly where it is, but let’s have a, it’s like, oh, that’s a, that looks like a nice part of the world. So yeah, it’s interesting how different that has been as opposed to and, and how accepting, thankfully, people are still of, of learning in that way.
I actually. I like both. I like face-to-face coaching and, and training, but I think virtual is, is, um, different, but not inherently better or worse. It’s just different.
[00:38:03] Peter Scott, CSC: Not, not inferior, but just different. Yeah.
[00:38:08] Brendon Le Lievre: Yeah. Are you doing much virtually or is it more face to face?
[00:38:13] Peter Scott, CSC: It’s. It’s probably half and half.
Uh, I, there might be a little bit more virtual than face-to-face, but I’m, I’m in Sydney, I’m quite close by the city. Um, that’s where a few of my people are. So, and I, I absolutely prefer to get out of the house and, and go to meet people um, when I can. So I, it’s, it’s all too easy to just be at home all the time and, and do that stuff.
And I probably, I probably had enough of that in 2021 when I was writing the book and 2022, when I was editing the book. It was all, you know, very solo stuff. So I really appreciate now getting out and working, working with people. So I do that. I do that whenever I can, but it’s probably, probably 50 50 or, or thereabouts on balance at the moment.
I think it’ll, my preference would be for it to go to more time, um, coaching people face to face. Mm-hmm. It’s expensive on time. Uh, you know, I might spend a good chunk of time getting into town for one meeting and then be back home. It’s expensive for time, but uh, worthwhile nonetheless, I think.
[00:39:37] Brendon Le Lievre: Yeah. Yeah.
It’s definitely less time involved, virtually, but um, yeah, there’s something different about it, as you say. Yeah, face to face.
[00:39:52] Peter Scott, CSC: And I, I don’t have the capacity to be moving from coaching session to coaching session regardless. You know, I, I, I need, I need some time, you know, off and doing something else before I can come back and, and tune in and do it again.
So, um, in that respect, it sounds expensive for time if I’m traveling town, doing a session, traveling home. But, uh, I wouldn’t wanna be jamming that up with coaching sessions anyway. Yeah.
[00:40:27] Brendon Le Lievre: I know early in my coaching career I did, you know, five or six coach hour long coaching sessions in a day, which is just way too many.
Uh, I recognise now and I slept well that night. Uh, and, you know, sessions five or six and, you know, maybe six, probably weren’t my best work. I was, I was lucky that the counterpart brought a lot to the table for those sessions if it had been where I was required to work a bit harder. To get them reflecting it, it probably wouldn’t have gone as well as it did.
Uh, and so now I’m much stronger on, you know, three or four, uh, e especially virtually max, um, three cause otherwise I just find that I’m not present for those later sessions or I fade or I’m, can’t quite pick up the thread of what’s happening and. My coaching suffers as a result. So even though it there is the time to do more coaching, I don’t, I try not to jam it in.
Um, or I don’t jam it in. Yeah. Yeah. And put other stuff in the, in the schedule. Cause I think it, like you say that decompression recharge time is, is as important as the, like we would expect you were talking about with the leaders. Like we would expect of our leaders don’t go full all the time, or you’ll, you’ll not get where you need to get to.
Yeah.
[00:41:51] Peter Scott, CSC: And you know, you can still be busy, you can still be doing things, but different things. Yeah. Um, I actually find also, uh, there’s a long-term impact for me if I’m not fully on my game for a coaching session. So I, I know if I’m, if I’m really on my game for a coaching session, um, I’ll be able to recall that conversation.
In quite some detail months afterwards. Um, and if I’m not really on my game for a coaching conversation, it’s, it’s much more of a struggle to take your mind, you know, a month later or six weeks later. To take your mind back to that conversation and what was going on for your coach here at the time and, and what came out of it and all the nuances and that they, they kind of just disappear if you’re not, if you’re not really there at the time.
Mm-hmm. So it’s, that’s for me, it’s not just your performance on the day. It’s my ability to recollect and, and bring forward. Cuz you know, it’s when you connect the threads from one conversation to the next, that’s, that’s often got a lot of power. Um, and yeah. That the threads get frayed. Yeah.
[00:43:06] Brendon Le Lievre: Yeah. So you’re not a note taker then?
I’m not a note taker.
[00:43:09] Peter Scott, CSC: But, uh, uh, look, I, I am a note taker. Okay. Uh, and I’ve, I’ve been challenged by supervisors on that. Um, you know, as to whether that is helpful for me or not. Um, but, but perhaps that’s part of it. Um, you know, my notetaking is not as precise or concise or, you know, relevant when I’m not fully on my game, but that’s where I can see it.
You know, two months later I’ll be reviewing my notes and I’m kind of going. I can read my notes, but I don’t remember that part of the conversation, what was hanging on around that. Um, so I’ve got, even with clues there, you know, sometimes I, um, I can’t remember all that I’d, I’d like to, and it’s different if, um, if it’s a, for me, a really good coaching session and just a couple of short notes and it all comes back.
Um, yeah, so, so you don’t take notes at all, Brendon?
[00:44:13] Brendon Le Lievre: No, I used to. Um, and then I just find they, they were getting in the way, uh, cause I got focused about capturing things accurately. Maybe that’s my, um, scribing background coming up, you know, running recruitment exercises and, and things needing to be documented accurately. Yeah. So, yeah, I’ve, I’ve just stopped, um, taking notes and um, cause I didn’t really know what to do with them afterwards anyway. Yeah. And, um, the counterparts that I work with, uh, long term, um, just, you know, making sure that I, I pause I suppose after each session and sort of mentally take some notes, but Right.
Not write anything down. And then, Um, being able to call that back. As you say that, that thread, you know, last session or two sessions ago you spoke about this and then that, and now this, what’s, what, how are you connecting them and, and then letting them go. But yeah, so I’ve, I’ve put the, the pen down mm-hmm.
So to speak for that. Um, and it’s working for me at the moment, but of, I always encourage those that I’m working with, if you want to take notes, like feel free and I’ll sit here quietly while you do it. Um, yeah, and they sometimes they find that quite surprising. They’re like, oh, I was gonna try and remember that.
I’m like, well, if you want to write it down, write it down. The other one that gets people is they go, I need to book a meeting or cancel a meeting, or change a meeting or send a note off to someone. And I, and I also, if you wanna do it now, And they’re like, really? Isn’t that a waste of your time? And I’m like, well, this is our time and your time, probably more so, so if that’s gonna work for you when you don’t have homework, right? Do it. Go and do it. And they’re like, oh, well that seems really rude. And I’m like, well, I, I don’t think of it as that way, so do it. They go and do it, and they’re like, oh, so relieved that that’s taken care of. It’s like, well, that’s, that’s the point.
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. Interesting how that plays out.
[00:46:26] Peter Scott, CSC: I, um,
yeah, I, I have noticed with some of my coachee, uh, I think sometimes if they see me taking notes, they think, oh, that’s okay. You know, Scotty’s got the notes. And sometimes I, I, I will say to them, look, What I write down here means nothing. You know what, what you write down might mean something and what you do might mean something.
But just be aware. What I write down here means nothing. Um, it’s just my own little aid to standpoint and be able to recollect and so on. Um, but don’t think this is a constructive part of the coaching conversation for you cause it’s not. Um, Um, yeah. Anyway, I might, uh, I might experiment.
[00:47:23] Brendon Le Lievre: Yeah, do what works for you.
Um, I had did some coaching where I was coached and the coach had a notepad and they were sort of scribbling away on it, um, the whole session and well, they’re taking a lot of notes. That’s interesting. And then at the end of the session, they sort of ripped the page out of the notepad and gave it to me, and it was all this visual, you know, drawing capture of the conversation and kind of where it had gone and what the themes were and how they bubbled out. And I’m like, how did you do that and coach? right? It’s like a mind map of the coaching session. I thought I would be so distracted trying to draw all that and capture all that, that I wouldn’t actually be listening to what the person was saying is I wouldn’t be able to capture it.
Yeah, it would get in the way for me, but for them, it was a very natural thing and. Oh, that’s interesting. That’s different.
[00:48:20] Peter Scott, CSC: Yeah. I, so I don’t do that, you know, that visual way. But certainly I will go, there’s a word that’s coming unexpectedly or that, you know, had some, there was something on that word that, you know, that I’ll write down.
And it, it just helps me capture the, the key bits. Um, And I’ll kind of go, is that, is that worth trotting a note down? Yeah. Maybe why? What wasn’t about, you know, how that was said or whatever.
[00:48:57] Brendon Le Lievre: Yeah. I find Uhno, another coach has shared with me, if they hear someone using the same word, they’ll just write that down then they just circle it. Or tick it. Yeah. And then they’re like, oh, you’ve said, Consequences just to pick a word. Um, 10 times. Why? Why is that? Why does that keep coming up? Isn’t it really that many times? It’s like, yeah. Yeah. So that’s always an interesting little takeaway.
[00:49:28] Peter Scott, CSC: Yeah. Yeah. But it’s about noticing that, isn’t it?
I mean, whether you record it, how you record it, it’s about noticing it and deciding. Okay. Is that something that I’ll bring forward for the coach here? Yeah.
[00:49:40] Brendon Le Lievre: Nice. Um, it’s been lovely to chat Peter. Thank you for your time today. Uh, I’ve got just some quick fire, rapid fire questions just to close us out, so just so whatever bubbles up, um, and, uh, and share with us.
So the first one that I have is, uh, and we’ve touched on a little bit, but we’ll go there again, is what fulfills you?
[00:50:06] Peter Scott, CSC: What fulfills me? How rapid does the rapid fire happen? Uh, I think seeing others succeed.
[00:50:21] Brendon Le Lievre: And what frustrates you? The opposite. What, what frustrates you?
[00:50:26] Peter Scott, CSC: Yeah, so what frustrates me working with people who are closed off and not willing to grow or learn really frustrates me. Um, yeah.
[00:50:47] Brendon Le Lievre: So besides, uh, your book Running Deep, uh, if you could remem recommend another book that everyone should read, so we get two recommendations from you here. What’s the second book?
[00:50:59] Peter Scott, CSC: Uh, so another submarine related one is, um, Uh, a fellow called David Marquette turned the ship around.
Um, so he’s a, he’s a United States Navy submarine commander and, and wrote a book about his experience in command, um, which, uh, for me was kind of, I get it. Um, I, I note it cause a lot of it. Resonated and I don’t think it’s, um, don’t think he’s got any magic formula, but he’s sort of captured some stuff really beautifully in that book.
So David Marquette, Turn the ship around.
[00:51:40] Brendon Le Lievre: Lovely. What do you most admire in your counterparts or coachee?
[00:51:51] Peter Scott, CSC: Determination pops into my mind. Uh, But I think it might vary across, across them.
But let’s, let’s go with determination. Mm-hmm.
[00:52:11] Brendon Le Lievre: What’s your favorite coaching question?
[00:52:17] Peter Scott, CSC: Uh,
I don’t know that I have one. Uh, But, but my favorite response is, that’s a great question, and, and that that comes in response to all manner of questions.
[00:52:40] Brendon Le Lievre: Yeah. Yeah, I hear you on that. Uh, if you weren’t a coach, what would you be? Uh,
[00:52:51] Peter Scott, CSC: A Writer.
[00:52:52] Brendon Le Lievre: A writer. Hmm. And if you could tell your younger self anything, what is it that you would say to yourself?
[00:53:00] Peter Scott, CSC: Be nice to Scotty.
[00:53:04] Brendon Le Lievre: I love it. Thank you for sharing that and your time today. Uh, we’ll put links up for your website and where people can get the book, uh, in the show notes so people can pick it up from there. Um, and I’ve really enjoyed getting to have a bit of a chat with you about coaching and all things coaching today.
[00:53:20] Peter Scott, CSC: Yeah, that’s that’s great. Thanks Brendon. Thanks for your time and thanks for the conversation. Been really nice.