Lisa Gaines joins Brendon Le Lievre to discuss the importance of contracting, managing emotions within coaching sessions, using Team Coaching to improve training outcomes, getting SCARFed and how to recover and the importance of processing feedback.
Lisa Gaines is a professional leadership and team coach and facilitator. She is an advocate, supporter, champion and accountability partner for her clients, and enjoys helping them achieve their potential in business and in life.
You can find out more about her by connecting with her on linkedin – https://www.linkedin.com/in/lisagaines/
- On her website – https://lisagaines.co/
- Email – lisa@lisagaines.co
Transcript
[00:00:00] Brendon: Hello, and welcome to the coach conversations podcast, the podcast where coaches have conversations about all things coaching I’m Brendon Le Lievre and today I’m joined by Lisa Gaines. Welcome Lisa.
[00:00:12] Lisa: Thanks Brendon. And thanks for having me.
[00:00:15] Brendon: Uh, welcome along. It’s good to have you here. I, in preparation for today, having a bit of a around and see that you do a lot of neuro neuro coaching, NeuroLeadership coaching, what’s the neuroscience and the link to coaching for you.
[00:00:30] Lisa: Well, I work closely with an organization called the Neuro Leadership Institute and they are a leadership and coach training organization. And it’s headed up by co-founder David Rock, who basically has done a huge amount of neuroscience research in collaboration with many neuroscientists in the US predominantly now.
And, uh, what I think David has done so well is he has, uh, compiled all of this research and put it in layman’s terms and it underpins a huge amount of their coaching methodology. So they call it the brain based coaching program. And that’s an award winning program that I’m a lead trainer on. And, uh, yeah, I think organizations especially love to, um, train their managers using that methodology and, and that type of training because there is some science to back it up.
Whereas I, I think oftentimes in organizations, when they’re going to invest heavily in the soft skill development, soft skill, you know, ironically, I like to call it core skill. Um, but they, they like that. There’s quite a lot of under, uh, neuroscience underpinning the training.
[00:01:48] Brendon: Yeah. And what brought you to joining or, or, uh, be becoming the lead trainer there with the NeuroLeadership
[00:01:56] Lisa: Well, it was quite a full circle experience because I originally trained back in 2010. It’s you know, how I came to coaching. Really? I think I was reaching a certain point in my career where I was recognizing I was becoming a Jack of all trades and master of none. And I did a lot of self inquiry and soul searching and, uh, you know, I got very clear. I wanted to work with people, one-on-one coaching, supporting, growing people and really helping them to get on track with their working lives and in their, in their businesses or our lives. And so I got a great opportunity to, uh, join the neural leadership Institute back then it was called Results Coaching Systems and. I worked with them for a few years, three, three years almost. And yeah, I basically worked in the capacity of, uh, the business aspect. So I was national sales manager for a time and I was working with the events team. Basically, there was a core team based in Sydney who ran, uh, the, all the training for Australia really.
And, uh, yeah, I joined them and I did all the training basically while I worked with them. I did as much training as I possibly could for three years. So I was just completely immersed in the coaching world and you know, all of that, um, training and loved it. And so that’s how I got involved with them. And then, uh, a few years ago, after working extensively, traveling all over Australia, New Zealand, as a trainer, facilitator, team coach, that kind of thing, um, they needed a coach based in Canberra and so that’s how I got back involved with them and have been training and teaching their methodology since. So that’s been fantastic.
[00:03:57] Brendon: Mm, yeah, all that travel and it’s just no longer required it seems for most things as well. We can do so much virtually now, which part of me really, really likes. And then part of me is a, a few people I have had sessions with recently have mentioned that they’ve been traveling or had to go, you know, to Sydney or Brisbane or something for, and it’s like, oh, you got to go on a plane again.
How that would’ve been, what was that like? , I’m intrigued about that.
[00:04:24] Lisa: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:04:25] Brendon: How are you finding the virtual work?
[00:04:27] Lisa: Well before the pandemic hit, I, my work was a 50 50 split. I was doing most of it. I had worked from home for a good seven or eight years, and I absolutely loved it. And I was thinking, gosh, why don’t more people do this. . And, um, but I was also traveling extensively, you know, I would be traveling every second or third week, uh, midweek.
And I, I think I did it for around seven years. It took its toll eventually, I was getting really tired of traveling. So it’s been a, a welcome change. Like I, I obviously I have an accent, so I do travel a lot because I go over back to Ireland to visit the family, uh, every year. And I love that. I love traveling for a, you know, certain purpose holidays or catching up with friends or having adventures. I absolutely love traveling for that purpose work. Not so much but you know, look, look, I still, I still do it now, but it’s in, in much smaller doses, which suits suits me better. Uh, and it sounds very glamorous, you know, always traveling, always in these hotels and, uh, you know, to dinner with colleagues and, and look, there were certain points where it really was glamorous and fabulous, and I’ve certainly had amazing moments.
Uh, but I remember thinking at one stage how tiring it was, how exhausting and depleting, and if I didn’t love the work and love the, and developing team members and creating healthier workplace cultures and psychological safety in the workplace. If, if I didn’t have an absolute passion for that work, I, I wouldn’t have done it. I wouldn’t do it. Yeah.
[00:06:05] Brendon: I traveled for five weeks, working with a, a government department to do a bit of a road show linked to some coaching. And in five weeks we went to, um, Perth, Melbourne, Hobart, Sydney. Some of the group that I was with, went to Cairns and the rest of us went to Brisbane and, and Canberra. And in that five weeks, obviously, it, it there’s a whole bunch of, uh, taxi, airport, taxi, hotel, taxi, office, taxi, airport, , uh, it was just bouncing between things.
And there was a group of us that did it, and we got to sort of week four. And it was like, where did we, which city were we in when we went here for dinner? Or where was that hotel that was really small or really, you know, different to what we were expecting. It all just blurred into one, uh, the Perth trip I remember being particularly challenging in because we got on a, a late-ish flight here, uh, chased the sunset across the country, landed and went straight to a workshop at midnight, their time or something. It was like, uh, this is gonna be a full on five weeks, but really enjoyable, learnt a lot, got a lot out of it. But I remember thinking, yeah, this sounds a lot more glamorous than it is.
[00:07:25] Lisa: And I love, and you know what, where it got really funny, kind of comical on a level happened to me once it happened to a colleague where, you know, you’re in a training room, you kind of lose a sense of where you are for the moment. And they say, oh, it’s so great being in Brisbane. And someone will go Brisbane? You’re in Melbourne. Like, I just think that’s hilarious moments like that. And they can happen so easily, you’re just, you’re so catching up your, your brain is catching up. I remember the worst, uh, trips for me, even though I love the people New Zealand, because you go over there, you know, they’re two hours to three hours behind.
So I was getting up at three o’clock, four o’clock in the morning, my time to get in run a workshop that, that really, I found that so taxing,
[00:08:11] Brendon: Yeah.
[00:08:12] Lisa: Anyway, they were days gone by, you know, it’s two years since we’ve been able to do that. So it’s a shame we can’t, but I’m okay. I’m, I’m very happy to keep doing all my work as much as possible online.
And I love reaching people, you know, sometimes I’ll have a training session, and there will be people from literally every continent on the globe on that session. And it’s, mind-boggling, isn’t it, you know, to have people from China, Africa, Europe, America. Wow. Technology is just incredible.
[00:08:45] Brendon: Yeah. And, and I like that you get that different cultural perspective as well. I did some training as a participant that had a really international, um, cohort
[00:08:58] Lisa: Mm,
[00:09:00] Brendon: and it, and it was linked to coaching and it really made you check in with some assumptions, even around really little things. You’d ask a question of people in the sort of real play activities that they were doing.
And. they’d be like, what, what do you mean by that? That doesn’t doesn’t land or that doesn’t make sense? Or that’s not how I think about that particular thing that you’re questioning me on. I’m like, oh, okay. That must be an Australian thing. I’ll have to check in with that.
[00:09:31] Lisa: That can so easily happen. And, and I think it’s wonderful to need to develop cultural sensitivity and awareness around that. And even teaching coaching skills can sometimes be challenging because I recognized, you know, one of the great aspects of being a good coach is being curious. And yet some cultures can find that quite invasive, you know, just a simple example like that. So, you know, you need to work with them to figure out their why, why would you be curious? And you know, your, and let them know, look, your clients will usually be very okay with you asking questions and probing deeper. And that’s why they’ve come to coaching with permission, you know?
Yeah.
[00:10:12] Brendon: You gotta get that contracting bit, right, up front.
[00:10:14] Lisa: Oh yeah. Yeah. I love that. I mean, it’s one of my favorite things is contracting, setting the scene and getting permission all the way throughout, um, as much as possible. Um, because then there’s always autonomy or there’s always a sense of steep respect, reverence to the coaching client and, and they, they get that, you know, they, they then feel like they’re in partnership and they get to choose every step of the way, which is great.
[00:10:43] Brendon: Hmm. How do you use your coaching skills? Obviously there’s a, a training element of it, but how else are you applying the coaching skills that you’ve got?
[00:10:54] Lisa: Well with clients, I, I just use every aspect of how I’ve been trained, but also, I, I think I’ve been doing this for a long time. I think when I did my training, we were asked, you know, when did you first realize you could be a, a good coach? And I came, came up for me, like even back in my teenage years, as I was getting in trouble in school for having conversations with school friends in the evenings, I would have friends pop in for a cup of tea and a chat.
And it was all, you know, sorting out problems and, you know, fixing things. And that was always the approach. So I think I always had coaching skills quite naturally. Um, but. I think some of the crux of them are to be curious, be really present, be have a sensitivity, uh, hold open, hold an openness to wherever the conversation needs to go and, and not to not be afraid of deep and meaningful conversations and to recognize when something is really important for somebody and to support just really supporting.
So to create that kind of environment and conversations. Um, I think just brings out the best outcome for whoever I’m speaking with, whether it is a client or whether it’s someone I work with a colleague or, or even a family member. That’s how I use some of them. And then there’s more, more nuanced skills that come into play, uh, depending on the client situation.
Yeah.
[00:12:34] Brendon: If you’ve managed to, uh, use your coaching skills with your family, you’re a step ahead of me every time. It, and I’m not even trying to use them often. I’m just, you know, listening, being curious and recognizing when something’s important to use the words you just did and my wife, for you, like don’t, don’t be coaching me.
Don’t now it’s not time for that. I don’t want you to do that. I’m like, I’m not, I’m not trying to, to do those things. And she’s like, no, we’re not doing that. So I have, have not yet cracked that, but I have with my, my kids, uh, learned to ask better questions, you know, instead of do you want to drink when I think they need to have a drink of water, you know, is because the answer is no. Do you need to do this? No. Do you want to do this? No. And now I ask, uh, is there any reason you shouldn’t have a drink? No. Okay, good. There’s your drink. How you get into the water bottle mate? So I’m applying my questioning in that way.
[00:13:29] Lisa: I, I love that. And I, I’ve definitely used that, uh, with my family in regards to my niece and nephews. And it is certainly about, okay, what are your choices? What’s your preference? What’s your priority? You know, these are things that you can apply in normal, everyday conversations, but I hear what you’re saying because my partner is as a psychologist and every now and again, we fall into the trap.
It’s rare, cause he’s really good at, um, having boundaries. But every now and again, we do fall into a trap of, um, like I’ll say to him, oh my God. Just, and don’t need a solution just let me feel my feelings right now. and we do, he goes into Mr. Fix It, psychologist mode, and I have to, uh, I have to push back on that and, and sometimes he’ll go, oh, I’ve got the coach again.
She’s cracking the whip or something like that. So that’s where I get into trouble.
Oh, it’s good. It’s good. When you can have a laugh about it and you can push back and have, um, clear communication and, and healthy boundaries, it can, it can be fine.
[00:14:34] Brendon: Yeah. Cause sometimes it’s useful. I know spending a lot of time with coaches. You know, sometimes I’ll, I I’ll be meeting them for a, you know, coffee or a lunch or even virtually, or what have you. And, and they’ll go, what’s going on? And I’ll be talking about something. Okay. I don’t want, don’t wanna be coached through this. I don’t need you to fix this for me. I just wanna whinge about it. So just let me whinge and vent and get it off my chest, but no, no need to coach. And you know, often after a few, few minutes, anyway, I’m like, all right, what have you got question? Have you got for me, that’s gonna help me see this differently. And they ask this fantastic question and a way you go.
[00:15:11] Lisa: Well, I, I love that you’ve raised this because to me healthy venting is hugely important. I need it. I have friends who are coaches and counselors who literally will call up and go, have you got 10 minutes? I need to talk something through and it’ll be a full on venting session. And I just think healthy venting creates space to then move on to, you know, your next coaching question is so, okay what, what comes next? And, and this is where I do love the distinction between, you know, venting and just getting stuck and going looping around again and again again, cause you can get stuck there and clients can get stuck there. And that’s why I love the, the coaching aspect, which is okay. Let’s. Look at moving forward. Are you ready to move forward now? And that’s yeah, I just am very passionate about that because I can, I can really support clients once they’ve had that chance and that air time, I think sometimes coaches, especially I get to listen to a lot of coaches in training. Some people who think they’re great coaches, but who’ve never formally trained before. And again, this is, to me, it’s a detrimental aspect to our industry because anyone can call themselves a coach. And there’s a lot of people out there who don’t have the, the foundational skills and who are potentially doing a lot of damage. I, I think anyway, you know, I remember when I first came to it, I really took the approach of the medical approach first do no harm.
And that’s why I studied extensively. I wanted to make sure that I had a lot of, I’ve still made mistakes and I’ve still triggered some clients by being too judgemental in moments or this, that, and the other. Um, but yeah, it’s, it’s definitely. I’ve lost my train of thought now, Brendon, where, where were we?
[00:16:57] Brendon: A healthy venting, circling back.
[00:16:59] Lisa: There you go. There you go. And so moving forward is, is a hugely important aspect of coaching that I think distinguishes it from other modalities.
[00:17:09] Brendon: Yeah. I had a, a client counterpart person show up for a human being, you know, whatever title I should be giving them, uh, show up for a coaching session. They were talking about all this stuff that they’d done. And as they were talking through it, I was like, that’s pretty cool. And that’s a unique thing. And you know, maybe similar to our discussion on travel with work early on, you know? Wow. That would be great to have been a part of or to do. And so I made a, a, I asked a question along those lines, you know, um, you’ve done all this wonderful stuff and whatever the question was that followed from that and they pulled me up on it and they said, I don’t think it’s that wonderful, Brendon. It’s just normal for me. It’s just what I’ve done. So, you know, everyone expects me to think it’s great and it’s magnificent it’s but it’s not, to me. It’s just a, and I was like, oh, that’s a really interesting perspective. And then we had a, a vent session, like they went on this big vent and I was like, okay, this is in service of them, it seems productive. So I’m gonna sit here with it, you know, that do no harm thing. And after about half an hour, They, they said, oh, that was, that was really good to get that off my chest. Thanks for listening to that because that’s not what I expected to get out of today, but now that it’s done, I’m much clearer on why I feel that way and what next? And you know, me coaching earlier in my career probably would’ve pulled up on that a little quicker and going, oh, that’s this isn’t coaching. I’m not, I’m not doing the right thing at the right thing at the moment.
[00:18:56] Lisa: I love that. And I remember now when I was, um, you know, where I lost my train of thought a moment ago, where the newer coaches who are training come in, I find too early because they have judged whatever the client is speaking about as too negative or, you know, not productive. I find they come in too early and then the, the client feels cut off, it damages trust.
Um, and it really can be then the coach’s agenda, the coach’s agenda kicks in, which is, this is getting too out there and I can’t reign it in. And, you know, I, I really think there’s something as, as a coach, you have to manage the uncertainty of where the coaching conversation can go and give that full permission. And at the same time, you know, continuously be creating awareness for your client, uh, but help them to track their way through and find their way out, which is crucial.
[00:19:54] Brendon: Hm.
[00:19:55] Lisa: It’s great to hear you doing it. I love that.
[00:19:57] Brendon: Yeah, it’s it was a really nice session to reflect on, you know, what happened there and what would I have done differently? And it, it stems from something I’ve been working really hard on, um, is to further embrace that uncertainty. But, but to put more of the responsability with the person that I’m working with.
So instead of me deciding where we go next, Or, uh, me being confused about what’s happening or, uh, and, and not calling it and sort of trying to fumble my way through it. I now just ask, I’m a bit confused here as to where we’re heading. We started here, we’ve done this. Where do we go next? Or what do you wanna talk about now? Or what’s what’s coming up as important for you to focus on. And it’s been wonderful, like really liberating, cause I was thinking, I’ll ask those questions and they’ll go, well, isn’t that your job? Isn’t that why I’m working with you and paying you is to decide where we go next and what we do next. But to date, no one has said that they’ve all said, oh yeah, yeah, that’s really interesting cause now I wanna focus on this or now I wanna talk about that or now we can, you know, I’m aware of this thing.
So I’m like, all right, cool. Let’s go there.
[00:21:13] Lisa: I love that. And you know, I mean, that’s a testament to several years of your experience. I would put that down to potentially because I, I think it does, it can take a while for you to be comfortable with, oh, I don’t have the answers on behalf of my client. And in fact it’s where, uh, the trainee coaches often get very stressed, like, but I don’t have the answer that I, I keep having to remind them.
You don’t, you don’t have to have the answers. This is not about you. This is about you being con continuously curious about the unfolding, you know, letting the, the clients just go where they need to go and find their own answers, their own wisdom, their own solutions. And, and what I love about this, I don’t know, in your background in training, but a crux of the training that I’ve done is around facilitating insights. And the motivation that comes with that when clients have their own insights, their own aha moments and just how much more likely they will be to take action and move forward than if you are trying to tell them what to do. Yeah.
[00:22:21] Brendon: Yeah.
Yeah. I used to say, I say that I used to say that quite regularly, it’s like, I could have a guess at where, where you might land and it would purely be a guess. I might get it right. Which is unlikely and if, if both of those things happen, you will still be less excited at about doing what it is that I’ve come up with for you, than if you come up with it and, and are able to work out where you would like to go yourself, cuz it will be more nuanced if, if you do it. So my job is, uh, get you new insight, think differently about things that are happening and take a action based on that. That’s all I’m trying to do here. I’m not, I’m not sitting here with an answer for you going I’ll just keep asking questions and they’ll get there eventually. I’m I’m not doing that cause sometimes particularly people that are new to coaching they’re like, what is this? I don’t even know, really know what I want. I just, I’m looking for some advice and can you just tell me how to solve this problem that I’ve got?
I’m like, well I can, but it’s not coaching
[00:23:29] Lisa: Tell, tell me what to do. Don’t fall into that trap. It’s a, it’s a tricky one. Isn’t it?
[00:23:35] Brendon: Yeah. Yeah. And I know, you know, even with early in my training, it was, um, just ask the questions, just ask the questions. Okay that I can adopt that as approach. Uh, and you I’d try and sort of slide advice giving in as a question as opposed and insight creation as a question, like no, just, just ask, you know, and, and you don’t need to have the answer sometimes you don’t even need to have, you know, almost the next question. I, I really like that. That question combo. What’s the question I should ask you. They give it to you and you go, okay. Here’s the question?
[00:24:14] Lisa: That’s hilarious. I haven’t got around to that, but do you know what I, I have got in the habit of now because I’ve had the experience where some of my clients I have worked, uh, with organizations where the clients are coming for quite a specific purpose and I was trying to do pure coaching with them.
And I got into trouble on a level because, uh, you know, several clients would leave and they would give the feedback to that organization “she’s not direct enough”. And I realized in that situation was, it was a hybrid, it was consulting slash coaching. There wasn’t pure coaching happening there. And I needed to get on board with that and be okay with that.
And so I did, so I developed a style then, which was very, um, direct, much more direct. And I am very I’m comfortable with that, but as long as I’m aware and they’re aware and the contracting again comes in to play, but now what I like is I’ve adopted some of that in my coaching style. So, you know, it’s. I wouldn’t say it’s that pure coaching, but what I would say is I’m in the habit of making sure that my clients do all their thinking first.
So ask them plenty of questions. And then when they’ve come to the end of whatever, they’ve come up with. I, if I still have an idea bubbling up that I think is worthy of their, uh, hearing, I’ll ask them, I say, I’ve got an idea that’s come up. Do you want to hear it? And so get permission first, add it into the mix and oftentimes it’s a lovely add on to what they’ve already done with their thinking, but you know, that, that piece of the habit of getting them to do all their own thinking first, I think is the crucial part.
Yeah,
[00:25:51] Brendon: Yeah, and I think establishing that, that that’s what you’re going to be doing in that contracting’s an important bit as well. Cause there’s been a, a couple of times throughout my coaching career where people have said, oh, I, he didn’t tell me to do anything like I didn’t get, he didn’t get told what I should be doing.
And I’m like, well, that’s not what I’m here for. Obviously I can tell I’ve got plenty of stories I can tell you and lots of experience, but, uh, that’s not what I thought you were after. So you know, that that’s been interesting as well when that’s come up and I’ve been thinking, you know, reflecting on that a number of times around, well, that’s just further work for me to do in the contracting around what coaching is and isn’t and how I’ll be, uh, approaching that as opposed to. And maybe a little bit about their readiness. Maybe there’s a, a bit there around, okay. They’ve experienced some coaching now they go away and think about it. And then when they need to come back, they can around, okay. Now I’m more ready for this coaching thing.
[00:26:59] Lisa: You know, I, I really love that and you’re absolutely spot on around the contracting up front. And I’ve even got it down to a one page document, you know, what is coaching and what you can expect from me. And, and I send that out to every client and I really hope they’ve, they’ve read it. And, and I also think the distinction between the different hats we can wear as coaches.
And actually what I’ve noticed is over the years, because before I came to coaching in 2010, I had studied extensively counseling. I was really at a decision making point, am I going to become a psychologist or a psychotherapist? Or am I going to become a professional coach?
And I move moved into the, the world of coaching. But what I recognize is that 10 years of studying counseling has been a wonderful foundation for coaching. And when I explain that to potential clients and some of my clients know it very well, that if it’s, it can be a hybrid experience. I, we can move into approaching into counseling and also sometimes it’s training for me, I’m teaching. I, I go, you know what, I’ve got a really good piece here that might be useful. Would you like me to show you and teach you how to do it? And, and often they’ll say, yeah, so it is consciously moving and wearing the different hat, but letting them know what’s happening.
And, you know, it was so funny recently, uh, I did have a potential new client in an organization that I was gonna work with. I just had one of these rare days where there was a lot of pressure in this organization. And the two people I coached had a back to back, uh, coaching sessions booked, and they had both needed to be emotional and it was absolutely fine.
And they walked out and I felt much better afterwards and I know that I got that feedback. Um, but the person who was thinking about having coaching, when she called me up to inquire about it, she said, look, I was thinking about having coaching, but I’m not sure because I saw last two people that you coached were crying. And I said, I swear to you like 95% of the time, there are no tears. Uh, but, but sometimes when my client need to go there, I’m very comfortable with it. And, uh, I just love providing that level of safety and, and freedom. Yeah.
[00:29:10] Brendon: Yeah, that’s one of the things I struggle with online is it’s hard to hand a tissue over. If the tears do come and often, you know, back to your point around uncertainty, you know, people will show up with a very, uh, hard practical this what I want to talk about today thing and you just work through the conversation and they end up somewhere that’s, you know, more of an emotional and it strikes a chord with them and, you know, tears happen or frustration bubbles over, or the, you know, the vent comes out and it say, okay, cool this is just where we’re at, but it’s kind of hard not to be able to handovers
[00:29:47] Lisa: I know I’ve taken to giving virtual hugs. I literally would say I I’m saying goodbye now I’m giving you a virtual hug and, uh, it’s a bit of a joke, but, um, I, I do miss that sometimes the face to face, uh, option and you’re absolutely right about handing tissues, but, you know, I think it’s just as worthwhile to it and witness and, um, hold the space and being, being an empathetic, uh, heartfelt space when somebody is having a moment, I think it’s such a gift and I’ve actually, I’ve seen some people struggle with that aspect of coaching. You know, I’ve seen some coaches trying go, oh my God, what do I do if the client becomes emotional and they’re literally freaking out and I just say, okay, this is your practice. If a client becomes emotional, it is completely welcome, and it is okay. It’s, it’s knowing, I think knowing your capacity and knowing where it’s going beyond your capacity, like, I think I’m, I’ve got pretty good awareness now where I feel somebody might need extra support with a psychologist or with, with a counselor that is beyond my, my capacity.
And, you know, to ask that question, you know, are you coping? And do you feel like you’re getting the enough support or could you do with some more support? And what would that look like? I just love that just being that comfortable with my level. And so that’s why, again, I love training coaches because I teach them that, you know, you just have to recognize if you feel you’re drowning, you completely out of your depth. That’s the time that you either need super vision or you need to speak to the client about, you know, maybe they need something different to you and what you’re capable of.
[00:31:27] Brendon: Because it’s, uh, at the risk of sounding like I’m diminishing it, it’s just data right? And often it’s when those emotions come up, it’s it’s useful data for the counterpart. Like I didn’t realize I felt so strongly about this, or I didn’t realize I was carrying that around, or I feel a lot better now that that’s out, cause that’s different to what I was expecting and, and they don’t have any expectation that it’s your responsibility and that you’ll do anything with it. They just go, oh, that’s it, it it’s just emotion. And now I’m thinking differently about that. It’s new data for me to form insights from.
I did have it happen when I was doing a coaching demonstration as part of a leader as coach program. So we run the, you know, the first day here’s some coaching fundamentals. Here’s what it is, what it isn’t, you know, some other things that you might do at the same time and how you can be more efficient, et cetera, et cetera. And then on the second day, we’d get someone from the, um, one of the participants to be coached, uh, in a real coaching conversation and sort of working through the, the conversation and then the emotion started and the, you know, the bottom lip quivered and the tears started flowing. And I was like, oh, you know, they just, this is, this is emotion, this is happening. But it was heightened because their colleagues are sitting sort of around the room, watching this conversation play out. I’m like, not every coaching, similar to your point not every coaching session’s like this. It’s not, you know, a room that I’m gonna call you into where you’ll be made to cry. But also, you know, the person was really good about it, which helped as well. They were like, you know, I, I was aware that that might happen if I started talking about this, cause it’s something I’m passionate about and it has, and I don’t need anyone to, you know, worry about me or worry about how I’m approaching this. I’m actually much clearer about how I feel about this and what I’m gonna do as a result. So that was actually really useful. So that was nice. But in the moment it was like, oh what have I done?
[00:33:33] Lisa: And, uh, look, I’ve done that for years, you know, I’ve been a team coach for 10 years now and you go in sometimes to teams and they have some hot topics running and, and you know, I, I set the scene, the contracting up front, I always warn look, we’re gonna have a team half day or a full day. Sometimes people can bring up things that make them feel emotional and emotions are welcome here. So we’re gonna provide that psychological safety. Uh, so I love setting that scene and it, again, doesn’t always happen just every now and again, it will, but you know what you work with, uh, passionate people and, and, you know, I’ve cried over my work. I’ve cried over, you know, it’s sometimes it’s created such a strong emotion in me, but it’s because of the passion. So I, I love saying that with leaders, I work with, they go, oh my God, they’re emotional, I go, yeah. But they’re actually engaged in the passion. It give me, give me a team member like that any day over someone who is withdrawn and hardly performing well.
And you know, so I love, I love all of that and I do my best to welcome, but certainly it can create, uh, other P people on the team can feel very uncomfortable and it can get messy and, you know, it can, it can be difficult, but here’s the thing I keep remembering. And I come back to time and time again, repressing emotion and trying to stuff them down is exhausting.
And it, uh, just takes up a lot of our energy. So whenever emotion comes up as a real let go, There’s freeing up of en energy and, and a freedom then to move forward in a new, newer way and to clear the air and, and start afresh. There’s all these opportunities that come in the mix. So I just keep reminding myself.
It’s a good thing. It’s a good thing. Even though it can feel uncomfortable when, and, and you know what, we’re human beings. We’re so social, socially wired creatures. We hate seeing other people in pain and suffering. But I think if, if we all know, if we all knew, actually emotion is a gateway to let go and feeling better on the other side, because what I often see in the workplace is people come in with the tissues way too early. Like they literally stuff tissues and someone go, oh, they’re there, or want to hug them too early. And they don’t let each other have their emotional experience because they’re not comfortable with someone else’s sadness or tears or pain. So again, that’s an educational piece around, you know, just give people a minute of breathing space to actually feel their emotions don’t try and stuff tissues in their face, straight away to shut them up because that’s what isprevalent, I’ve seen a lot of that in the workplace. And it was so well-meaning, you know, they’re so well-meaning, but sometimes it can be quite harmful when someone feels like, oh my gosh, my tears, my emotions, making people feel very uncomfortable. So I better just repress it again, you know? And isn’t it a fine line when you’re in a situation like that between, okay. Is, is this held, you know, is this held well enough this whole experience or is this gonna be something that needs to be taken off offline? You know, this might not be the, the public forum for this, you know, just say, yeah, take someone to somewhere a bit more private, where they can have that experience.
So talk about dancing in the moment, present moment awareness and, and really dancing with clients in the moment that’s what’s what’s continual and again, one of the reasons I absolutely love coaching and team coaching.
[00:36:57] Brendon: Yeah. Cause you know, the bit around that I think is important is whether we let it play out. Like we, the team, not necessarily, we, the coach. or not. Whether we accept that level of emotion being displayed in our work area or not, the emotion is there so that person’s bringing it to work. And as you say, burning a heap of energy, repressing it.
Whereas if they were allowed to let it out and process it, now it’s out. We can do something with it.
[00:37:27] Lisa: uh, such a good point. And, and doesn’t that come down to workplace culture and, and values. And, you know, I talk about that’s one, another piece. I love working with leaders and teams around because that can be the container for the whole experience. And everybody’s on board with then. But if you haven’t set, you know, a part of our values, we support each other when we are emotional or when we’re having a bad day.
If that’s not, hasn’t been discussed before and you’ve got, you know, a leader who’s completely UN not okay with people showing emotion. On the team, it can cause a lot of friction. So that’s a core piece, you know, working with values and, and developing a nice, clear culture. That’s been co-designed by the whole team who, who are there.
I think that can be a beautiful thing. I love that.
[00:38:20] Brendon: The team coaching. What’s the step I want to say up, but maybe it’s sideways, maybe it’s not a step at all to move from working one on one to working with an entire team from your experience?
[00:38:35] Lisa: Well, I mean, first of all, I think to get some again, foundational training is very helpful. So I did, I did a team coach training and I did workplace coach training as part of my development, which was just so incredibly helpful because you know, there’s all sorts of problems you run into. As you well know now, workplace coaching, even just, um, supporting different coaching clients who are on the same team, but who are all having different, a different experience, and then supporting confidentiality that has to be set up at the beginning because the, the business owner or the organization are paying for coaching they might have an, that you’re going to divulge what’s being shared on coaching sessions, but of course you’ve committed to confidentiality.
The way I set it up is I always tell the owner or the business owner or the, you know, person organizing the training within the organization or the coaching within the organization. That that’s my standard. I, I won’t share, you know, individual stories from coaching sessions, but then I ask the individual clients, the coachees on the team if I hear something, especially a trend that’s happening from different people on the team that would be useful for the leader to hear for their leadership development. Can I get your permission to share that? And I, I won’t share any names. And so that that’s often part of the, the contracting and, and you learn that when you go through workplace coach training or team coach training, and then the team coaching. Like how I really got into that, uh, was I would go to do a team training and I’d have the whole agenda that would’ve been co-created between myself and the business owner. I would show up on the day. And then all of a sudden, the team bring up all of these issues that haven’t been addressed, that they’ve been holding onto potentially for a year or two or whatever it is.
All of a sudden the agenda is out the window. And I’m using those foundational team coaching skills that I learned in, in team coach training. And so that’s how it started. And then to be honest, over time, I realized, you know, if I’m doing it the whole day with a team, I can generally have an agenda and I can leave an afternoon, a couple of hours where it’s completely open for team coaching and coming up with, you know, shared goals or direction or innovation the team want to bring in.
And it is magical when you open it up and get them brainstorming together and working towards a common goal or common KPIs or whatever it’s, uh, I often find that can be the most enlightening part rather than the training coming from me or, or even being facilitated by me.
[00:41:14] Brendon: Mm.
Yeah. I showed up to do a, a training session with a group a while ago now, and we’re, we’re in the content and I’m, I’m, you know, I’d set it up and I’d created the safety and built the connection and we’re working through the agenda and you, people are participating, but my read was there’s something under the surface here there’s that I haven’t got visibility of.
It’s sort of just at a simmer and someone at the back of the room who hadn’t said much made a comment like. Yeah, but until such happens, then we won’t be able to apply this. Or how about we have the real conversation that we should be having something like that got said. And I was like, all right. And I remember just turning, like, cause I had the remote, I had the button to just turn the slides off and I just turned them off and they didn’t come back on for about four, four hours after lunch sometime.
[00:42:15] Lisa: Yep. I get it.
[00:42:17] Brendon: And, and, and there’s all this stuff happening and I’m like, this is useful. This is what we should be doing. I know my agenda. So I, there is a link back to what we are, you know, meant to be talking about what I’m being paid to be talking about. And then I, I just remember thinking, you know, just stay in the middle, in the middle of this, Brendon, like, let it sort of whirl around.
You don’t necessarily get hooked into any of it, but just observe it and sit with it and then offer little insights here and there. And it ended up being a really productive conversation. And then later on, I turned the slides back on. I said, for those of you that are worried about the fact that we haven’t looked at the slides for the last few hours, let me just walk you through what we were going to be looking at and, and you could see that we’ve done it all anyway. Like here’s the link to that, here’s the link to that. We’ve just done it in this way with the all real situation, as opposed to, so that was kind of nice that, that, that landed your other point around working with individuals and then teams reminded me.
I did this engage where I did lots of one on one coaching. And then I did two group coaching sessions with different levels of leadership in an organization. And I met with the, the core managers first, rather than the senior managers. like
[00:43:43] Lisa: Middle managers. You don’t like that word
[00:43:46] Brendon: I don’t like the word middle, like same as the soft skills.
Right. And middle managers. And like middle just implies it sort of getting crushed by everything core,
[00:43:53] Lisa: isn’t there some truth to that though.
[00:43:57] Brendon: maybe that’s my ex middle management experience sort of showing up. And I, the first group were talking through this situation, a few of them had mentioned it one on one. And I, I remember thinking to myself, I can’t believe that the senior managers can’t see this. I can’t believe that they’re not across it.
You know, what is going on? This is my personal agenda, you know, sort of, or reflections on it showing I’m not sharing it with the team, but I went, I, I need, what is, what is happening here? I need to do something with this. And, and they all left. And then the, the more senior management group came in and they started talking about the same situation but with, from a completely different perspective. And I was like, oh, I’ve, I’ve bought in over there. And I probably shouldn’t have, because I only had half the story. And now I’ve got this half of the story. And then the bit about contracting was they came, both groups, came up with a very similarish action, which was great around what they were going to do to address is, and the second the senior managers were going, oh, I don’t know whether the core managers are gonna like this action or not, or whether it it’s gonna be useful or not.
And I was able to say, without breaching any confidentiality, they’re gonna like it, because if you don’t do it, they’re on their way to do it with you anyway. You may already, you know, an invite to discuss it in your calendar. No. Well, that’s good to show that we’re on the sort of similar page, but I just remember that that insight around. Just fully buying into this group’s perspective and reflecting on my own career. How many times has that happened, where you, you sort of get together with your peers and your colleagues and you all see the same situation in the same way, and yet others in the organization see it completely differently. And the value of getting access to those two different things, but without having access to coaching individual or team, or otherwise, we just lose that.
[00:46:02] Lisa: I, I totally agree with the, the different sides. You know, I I’ve seen that so many times where I have had deep empathy for whoever I’m coaching at any given moment. And then I go in and I, I, you know, I really work with not having, uh, a preconceived idea around somebody, but you know, it can influence, it can taint how you will see somebody.
And then what I love about showing up, being present and being curious, I’m always amazed. There’s definitely so many different sides to whatever went on and to then have deep empathy for each person on the team, or you know, the leader and the team member, whatever for whatever is going on. And then, you know, our job I think, is to.
Sometimes to mediate almost, you know, to be a bit of a go between the bridge builder. Um, and that can, that can work beautifully at times. I think to get them communicating more effectively and more respectfully, uh, is often a way forward. And I love the point that you raise there around, you know, when you end up doing team coaching and you don’t get through an entire agenda, I I’ve been lucky for the most part the business owners have been in the room or, or the main kind of stakeholder has been in the room and I’ve been able to get their okay. And their approval to, to do this and then to try and, you know, recreate where look, we’ll do your most important topics that we definitely want to cover off. And we’ll work through this stuff that might take us an hour or two, you know?
So it’s um, yeah, it’s just constantly trying to keep up, keeping present with what’s required in the moment. Isn’t it.
[00:47:39] Brendon: Hmm. I like that with the agenda as well. I’m toying with the idea of doing that with a group that I’m gonna meet with, for a facilitation, um, engagement, uh, later this week around going look, I’ve got an agenda, but what do you think is most in important for us to talk about? Uh, what is it that you’d like to cover off?
Cause I know that there’s no doubt, a couple of things in the group we haven’t quite got to, even though we negotiated and worked with and, and covered off, but, you know, finding that, um, bit of time throughout the agenda and the session around. Okay. Well, what is it that you, you really want to talk about?
And I’ll, we’ll talk about it. I’ll, I’ll bring it up or what have you and, and see what they come up with.
[00:48:31] Lisa: Look, I think it’s really where, you know, team members and whoever’s in the room. They get so much value out of that because it’s entirely their contribution and, you know, the motivation behind autonomy and, uh, them feeling like their, their autonomous and their input is valued. It, it just ticks so many boxes and they’re co-creating and I just think that’s crucial in, in a team forum and I love that you you’re gonna facilitate it. And the most challenging, I think thing for people who haven’t done team coaching before is that, you know, the uncertainty around the discussions in a one-on-one con conversation is one thing, the uncertainty in a team of, you know, 10, 15, 20 people, different world entirely.
Um, and you’re flying by the seat of your pants completely, but when you can do it and enjoy it and, and it’s the most fun, uh, as well, I think is part of facilitating and it can be very enlivening and, and so rewarding when you get that kind of feedback to say, the team are so engaged and, you know, I’ve, I’ve worked with teams over the years where they have become, you know, the dream for the business owners, the team become more, self-managed less reliant on the leaders and to see that happening because of those kinds of team coaching sessions, where they came up with their own ideas, things that they wanted to implement and run with, and they were given full support to do it, uh, really increased their confidence and saw them grow in their careers and, and in their roles. Very rewarding. Very rewarding.
Yeah.
[00:50:07] Brendon: Yeah. I always walk away thinking that was great. I learned something as well. And, and part of me, as you were talking through that, I was, and I’m sure you are very familiar with the SCARF model, but I was just holding that the SCARF model in my head, you said autonomy, you said certainty I was thinking to, I said, oh yeah. So it’s the certainty bit. That’s stopping me from stepping into that, but it would give a lot of autonomy and I can manage that now that cognitively, I know that that might have been what was getting in the way of that. And we’ve spoken about the SCARF model in a workshop as well. So,
[00:50:39] Lisa: well, I mean, look, I’m a massive fan of the SCARF model because it’s, uh, You know, David Rock, uh, really david rock’s work. And, uh, you know, I think for the most part, I just think it’s such an incredible, a aware, like you create incredible awareness to understand what can trigger people that you work with to a point where they will be disengaged.
And if you can understand, any of those key drivers from that social perspective, which is really what the SCARF model is for anyone listening has never come across it. It’s the, it’s the five key, uh, domains, uh, where we’re socially motivated. So they are status certainty, autonomy, relatedness, and fairness.
And if we have these working well in any relationship, we will feel an engaged state with whoever we’re interacting with. If we are triggered where we feel somebody has created unfairness or a lot of uncertainty, or, you know, they’re micromanaging me, they’ll take away my autonomy, then you’re gonna trigger uh, push back in, an away state. So look, I, I love working with leaders around that and, and team members, a lot of actual leaders I worked with over the years, they said, you know, learning about the SCARF model is, is part of their induction process in the workplace for all new staff. So the whole team are aware of it and they can discuss it, if something comes up for them, more likely to be able to go, I’m triggered. Um, I think that’s unfair and they can identify it and mention it. And you know what, I’m a real believer in if it’s up and it’s out, then it’s gonna be more, there’s more freedom. There’s more freedom to move forward as well. But if it’s hidden and if it’s passive aggressive, that’s where trouble builds.
[00:52:22] Brendon: Mm. Yeah, it was, that was brought to my attention seven years ago now must be close to that. Um, by a, um, employee assistance program, counselor therapist, um, that I went to see cause there was someone I was managing that I thought needed some extra support and I was wondering how I could better support them.
So I went along and, and spoke with them and they said, oh go and read this, um, paper on this SCARFmodel. I think it would be really useful. And it, and it has been, um, immensely because I use it personally for myself when I feel like I’m a little bit rattled. You know, I just run the checklist. What’s ticked at the moment, you know, and I’ve just done that and gone, oh, that’s the certainty bit for me in that example that I’ve shared. And so, um, I cognitively now I know that it’s easier for me to step into it. Whereas if emotionally, I just let it happen I’ve got very little chance. The other thing I like about it is that, you know, people that are listening, you could hand them a pen kind of thing, and say, talk a bit a bit about this and they’d be able to, and, and so people can teach it to others quite quickly at a, at enough of a level where they can go, oh, I understand that, like, I’ve got my story around when my status was impacted positively or negatively, or my relatedness was positively or negative.
[00:53:50] Lisa: And, and even look it’s online, you know, I mean, you can look it up if you Google it, it’s on YouTube there eight minute videos that run through it. I just think it’s incredibly helpful. And I love that you use it yourself because I do too. And you know, if I’m highly triggered, we even, you know, in part of the, the community that I work with with NLI, we have, we can jokingly say, oh my God, I’m totally SCARFed and we’ll know what we’re talking about.
You know, we have the shortcut to the jargon or he SCARFed me or she SCARFed me. And I just think no to, to be able to identify that. And then shortly afterwards, I can find myself laughing about it. But in the moment, if my status has been impacted by, you know, a public dis for example, uh, with someone in a more senior position that can take sometimes days to recover from even weeks, I would say, but knowing it and tracking it and seeing what’s happening, uh, I can see, I felt disrespected, it was in public, a public setting, uh, I lower than, or less than, and to track that, then again, I have freedom to go, okay, well, that’s my story. That’s the narrative. And I can kind of free myself up to not carry that with me for the next two years or whatever it could be, you know?
[00:55:04] Brendon: Yeah, I love using it as a verb. I’ve never heard of it used in that way before, but I’ve been SCARFed.
[00:55:10] Lisa: Yes. Or, or we even say sometimes in a training group, you know, we might have 20 participants and sometimes we’re giving quite direct feedback to coaches and development. And we, I, I like, I really try and do it with as much kindness and empathy as I possibly can. And oftentimes these coaches in development, they’re, they’re hungry for the feedback. They’re, they’re keen. They’re like, okay, what can I do to improve? Tell me where I’m going wrong. And, um, you know, try and do the self, what you tell me first and then I’ll add my 2 cents, you know, uh, so try and do all of that. But sometimes there’s always a risk with feedback, especially any kind of critiquing, there’s always a risk that you’re going to SCARF someone.
And, and so, you know, that’s the think to have that and to be aware of that is incredibly helpful. And yeah. To recognize that the risk is there, it’s always there. And I actually, I think whenever you stand up in a public setting as a trainer, uh, even sometimes as a coach, one on one, uh, you’re in a position where you can trigger another.
And, uh, that’s so that’s why I think this work is quite brave, you know, it’s, there’s a courage to it that, um, yeah, I, I love I’m very, uh, inspired by other trainers and coaches who I see. Like I remember actually when I worked at NLI back in 2010, those trainers were my heroes. I remember looking at them training and I was just blown away by their intelligence and their, their wisdom and the way they delivered with such finesse and, and how they, I, I just learned at such a rate that I hadn’t learned before, I was like a sponge. I remember going, oh my God, this is so fascinating and interesting and life changing and all of that. Um, so yeah, I, I love that I’m in that role now, all this time later, I’m in, I’m in that role now and I just think it’s such a, a privilege to be able to do this type of work in any capacity, you know? So, yeah, that’s great.
[00:57:13] Brendon: And there’s no doubt people looking at you thinking the same thing now, you’ve got the superhero cape on. Sometimes I think it’d be useful to have one to put on every now and again.
[00:57:23] Lisa: Yes, yes. Sometimes it would be nice to, to stand there with the, the shiny cape and the, the protection, I think as well, because, you know, I think that’s the daunting aspect of standing up to share and even, you know, I think courage to run a podcast like you’re doing here. Uh, it’s just wonderful because it’s so easy to sit back on an arm chair and critique and criticize, but not have any skin in the game, but when you’re in the field, like I think Brenee Brown talks about it in some of her books.
She’s like, I’ll take advice from people who are in the arena. I won’t take any advice from people who have no skin in the game and who aren’t doing the work. And I I’m really aligned with that as well.
[00:58:07] Brendon: Yeah. Yeah. Cause I find working, you know, in all the ways that I work now, I probably get more feedback in a month than I got in a year. Um, when I was working internal to an organization and you know, the vast majority of it is positive and that’s very rewarding and I’m thankful for that and then there’s some that is help, helpful guidance or suggestion, and that’s useful as well. Cause one of the reasons I love, what I do is I love to learn and it’s an opportunity to learn, but every now and again, you just don’t quite connect with someone or you rub them the wrong way. You prob I probably SCARFed them if can use that verb there. And so the feedback can be a little biting and, and they, they can SCARFme and, you know, uh, that’s another opportunity where I’ll run through that.
Okay. What’s happening here. Um, for me with this feedback and then, uh, adopt curiosity, what can I learn from it? What can I do differently next time helps me. But yeah, sometimes it’ll like you say, it’ll rattle, rattle around in there for a day or two and there’s but yeah, Brendon, there’s, you know, the vast majority of it over here is all really positive. I’m like, yeah, but one person didn’t enjoy it. Or one person said it could have been better or one person thought it was boring or whatever it might be. I was like, well,
[00:59:27] Lisa: Isn’t it amazing how our brains work and, and honestly, I mean, this is, I just love being aware that this is the tendency of the, the human mind, that, and it’s because, you know, we have way more neural, real estate dedicated to what is a threat to us. And, you know, there. Ideas that we are four times more likely to focus on or five times more likely to focus on what’s negative, what’s a threat. And nowadays we don’t have any real threats for the most part to our, our lives and our, you know, we don’t have animals coming to attack us for the most part. Um, but we have transferred those threats onto social interactions. So whenever someone critiques us or rejects, uh, or doesn’t like, what we’ve done it is, it can be, it can feel all consuming because you know, the social exclusion, uh, I think I’ve, I’ve, I understand that the brain processes, social rejection in a very similar way that it processes physical pain. So it can actually feel like it stings and it hurts and it’s painful. And it’s so funny, cause I’ve been in that position as well. I’ve done a day of training where I’ve had, you know, 80 people in a training room and I’m telling you there are two forms that would say, oh, she wasn’t respectful to the assistant trainer or something.
I’ve had that before. And I’ve just obsessed about those two feedback forms where they said, I, I was like, how was I disrespectful? Oh my God. But I had literally 80 people saying amazing training life changing, blah blah. So you have that. And so, you know, you just had have who work with and go, yes. Is there feedback there that I can use that’s gonna make me a better facilitator, a better training, right? If not, you know, in that instance, they didn’t even have the full story. They weren’t at the morning session where the assistant trainer said, I’m here, use me. That’s what she said is just so I kind of just said her to work, you know, but they saw that I was just telling someone what to do and, and didn’t like that and had their narrative around that.
And, uh, but isn’t that hilarious that I literally was busy with that for, I would say at least a couple of days.
[01:01:33] Brendon: Yeah. yeah, my wife’s like, what’s wrong with you? I’m like, oh, I got some feedback today and I’m working through it and I’ll be okay and it’s gonna make sense eventually, but like you were saying earlier, just let me feel the feelings at the moment. I’m just feeling the feelings and, and then I’ll cognitively process it and I’ll read the other 80 forms and go, oh, you probably didn’t do that bad a job then.
[01:01:57] Lisa: Exactly. Exactly. And then I always know. You know, I’m so supportive with people who have the courage to stand up and either speak in public, run a podcast, uh, do whatever they’re doing when it’s standing up, knowing that they could get a lot of, um, feedback. Mostly, hopefully it’ll be positive, but some criticism, um, I just think, you know, what, it’s really good to be kind and supportive because what I’ve seen a lot with clients who have decided to put themselves out there a bit more and you know, some of them it’s for a marketing purpose for their business to grow their business.
And I’ve seen initially when they started, uh, some of what they share on video or online on social media. Might be inexperienced and they might be quite green and it mightn’t be considered that good. But what happens over time, the evolution of what they’re doing and the creativity behind what they’re doing, it just becomes better and better and better.
They had to start somewhere. And so I take that on board myself now as well. And it’s the same actually with coaches in training as well, you know, I’m really into supporting their strengths and just nurturing and, and bringing those up and yes, giving them some things to work on, to improve, but it, it, I just love growing people and supporting them in their growth and, and, and acknowledging the courage and the bravery, because it, it really does take that, you know, there has to be a willingness to be hung out, to dry on a level, you know,
[01:03:29] Brendon: Yep. Yep. But you never get that feedback or the opportunity to improve if you don’t start.
[01:03:36] Lisa: It’s true. And you don’t get the rewards either. You don’t get the rewards and the rewards are, they so outweigh the, um, the criticism and the, the sting that we get here and there when we get some negative feedback, um, because just the connections that we make and the growth that we support is it’s all worth it, I think.
Yeah.
[01:03:57] Brendon: Yeah. Wonderful. Well, thank you for hanging out with me for a bit today. Lisa, I’ve got my eight questions, so I’m just gonna rattle these off. Uh, you come back with whatever makes sense to you. Uh, but you know, whatever length of answer works for you, um, and I’ll just move through them. So the question, the first question is, uh, Lisa, what fulfills you?
[01:04:21] Lisa: Helpers high. I will say I, I love supporting others and, and growing people. So I’ll say the helpers high.
[01:04:30] Brendon: Helper high. And what frustrates you?
[01:04:34] Lisa: Uh, I would say cruelty,
uh, yeah, cruelty.
[01:04:41] Brendon: If you could recommend one book that everyone should read, what’s the book?
[01:04:48] Lisa: Hmm. I can only think of the latest one that I really enjoyed by Brene Brown. I think it’s Dare To Lead.
[01:04:58] Brendon: mm-hmm
[01:04:58] Lisa: And as I support a lot of women in leadership that really worked for me, there was just so many aspects of what she spoke about that were pertinent to the clients I work with. And, and for me personally, so I I’ll call that one out,
[01:05:12] Brendon: Wonderful Dare To Lead. Thank you. What do you admire in your most admire in your, uh, counterparts or clients?
[01:05:20] Lisa: nothing. I think I mentioned courage. Uh, I think I admire their, the courage to grow and to keep on moving forward. And, uh, that’s so exciting. I just love witnessing that and actually the courage to be vulnerable as well, because I think there’s tremendous growth that comes from that too.
[01:05:44] Brendon: what’s your favorite coaching question?
[01:05:49] Lisa: Mm, can we dive a bit deeper?
[01:05:56] Brendon: Mm-hmm I like one.
Uh, if you weren’t a coach, what would you be?
[01:06:03] Lisa: Ah, what would I be? I’d probably be an artist. I’d say I’d be either a, you know, I’d be a performing artist, that’s a passion, so yeah.
[01:06:17] Brendon: And if you could tell your younger self anything, what would you say to yourself?
[01:06:23] Lisa: Oh gosh. I would just. I would just say you’re doing great. Like, it would be a simple acknowledgement because I think, you know, growing up with a very strong inner critic and having that for many years of my adult life, there was always the opposite to that in my own belief around myself. And so, you know, you’re doing, you’re doing fine.
You’re right on track would be the advice I’d give myself.
[01:06:56] Brendon: Yeah, wonderful. Uh, feedback from me is I think you’ve done great today. So thanks for hanging out and, uh, spending a bit of time chatting about that. I’ll drop your website, your email address and your phone number and stuff in the LinkedIn post. So people can pick it up from there.
[01:07:13] Lisa: Thanks, Brendon. Great speaking with you.