Emma & Rhys from Acknowledge This! joined Brendon Le Lievre to discuss authentic Acknowledgements of Country, putting people before business, writing a book in a morning and using fun as a lens for selecting business opportunities.
Rhys Paddick
Director, Acknowledge This!
Rhys is an advocate of cultural leadership and the development of sound educational and training programs. Working in environments that can and do create holistic, healthy and substantial changes. Rhys’s career in long-term networks began with educational support and mentoring programs of Aboriginal youth, both in primary and secondary schools. His focus now is to bring a modern adaptation of traditional indigenous culture into the wider Australian forum in an effort to connect Australians with our common culture – people culture.
@the_wholesome_yamatji
Rhys Paddick – Linkedin
www.rhyspaddick.com
Emma Gibbens
Director, Acknowledge This!
Emma inspires people to take action and have meaningful conversations through training, speaking and strategic campaigns. She has managed political and advocacy campaigns across the US and around the world for over 10 years, specialising in grassroots movement building. She recently completed a contract as Strategic Communications Manager in the COVID-19 Communications Team for Department of Premier and Cabinet WA.
@emmaduhjemmah
Emma Gibbens – Linkedin
www.emmagibbens.com
Transcript
[00:00:00] Brendon: Hello, and welcome to the coach conversations podcast, the podcast where coaches have conversations about all things coaching. I’m Brendon Le Lievre and today I’m joined by Rhys Paddick and Emma Gibbons.
And I know you may have listened to a couple of different episodes, and you’ve heard me say that surname a couple of times. I will have to get a French speaker to come and say it because they say it far nicer than I do. It’s like eighth generation Australian, which means no chateau in the Bordeaux region to inherit, no family to visit. But lucky enough to be born, raised, live, work, play on Ngunnawal country. And I’ve really enjoyed over the last couple of years, having the opportunity to slow down and connect with that country. It’s in Canberra, for those that aren’t familiar. And it’s beautiful this time of year. That’s what real highlight with the leaves changing colors and the, you know, the birds flying around and the animals, um, starting to prepare for those cooler months as they arrive. And it’s getting a little bit cooler here already, which is the time of year I really like. And in that slowing down, what I have really enjoyed is reflecting on the fact that the country that we live, work, play, enjoy has been so well cared for by the traditional custodians and that they have left the country in a state that we are able to enjoy it in the way that we in the way that I do.
So, uh, Yuma hello from Ngunnawal country, from me and, uh, the next time your, uh, outside and notice something, I would encourage you to acknowledge elders past and present and future leaders, uh, for having, learning and continuing to be custodians of all that beautiful country that we have access to, but enough from me, a welcome Reese, welcome Emma. And the reason we started that way is because I felt called to, and it’s something we’ll explore today. How are you both?
[00:02:03] Rhys: Wonderful, Brendon, thanks for inviting me on. Um, I love having these discussions and love having these yarns and especially in this sort of capacity where it’s not just, uh, like the deliverable of the, of the workshop that we run, which is cool. So we can sort of work at south of that, but, uh, I’m zooming in from Brisbane at the moment.
So I had just had a, um, a workshop that I ran here yesterday with a client, uh, that I’m really friendly with. They were launching their reconciliation action plan, um, their reflect one, uh, yesterday. So they invited me to that. Uh, so that’s why I’m sort of just in the, stuck up in a hotel room at the moment and, uh, just sitting back and it gives me something to do before I figure out what the city is all about later on tonight when I go for a walk.
So that’s what I’m doing.
[00:02:47] Brendon: Wonderful. Thank you, Reese and Emma?
[00:02:51] Emma: Yeah. I’ve had a beautiful day as well. Um, I love, I love that love. I love that love is at the center of so much of our work. And so I’ve had a handful of stunning conversations with beautiful people and beautiful, you know, organizations doing the work of reconciliation and trying to, to meet that, that, that change, that call for change.
And so, I mean, I’m very inspired and I’m really loving it. And I’m in a space where, um, and our studio space down in the city of Perth and borloo where Rhys and I have dreamed up so many of our concepts that we talk about. So I’m sitting in a deep heart space, I’ve had a lot of great inputs and I’m in a very, uh, homey space I’m sitting here today.
So I feel very connected to, to everyone and to, to country and to all of you. Yeah.
[00:03:36] Brendon: Wonderful. Now that sounds really good. And, and you mentioned the workshop that you run. Uh, I participated in the workshop that you run. Uh, probably five or six weeks ago. Now, how do you explain the workshop that you run to other people?
[00:03:53] Rhys: Well, really, we don’t really, it’s a workshop second right? So we actually, we actually talk about it as a conversation first. Right. So, um, we, we mentioned that it’s a conversation that started between friends, um, Emma and I, it was literally a few years ago that we met up and then we sort of realized that we had common, um, questions, like sort of like, um, within culture and people and community.
And, uh, we, we, we, we communicate really well. So, uh, one of the things that Emma was curious about was this phenomenon of what not only the acknowledgement of country, but like what, uh, how to, how to participate as a, as a, as a woman from cold dark places, as she says, right? Uh, as someone that’s new to this country within the Aboriginal space, uh, within Australia, uh, and then of course come the conversation of like, well, what is an acknowledgement of country?
And, uh, what does that mean while we do it this way and how do we do it, where we can make it more authentic and all these questions coming up. So that’s why we sort of continue that as a conversation. So, uh, yes, it is a workshop sure, um, that, that we facilitate, but at the same time, every time we run that workshop, but really have that conversation, we learn something new from everybody that continues that conversation with us.
So we sort of frame it as a conversation because really it’s more of an accurate statement to what it actually is.
[00:05:15] Emma: Um, for those of you who. It’s called Acknowledge This! How to give an authentic acknowledgement of country. It’s a two-hour workshop that we run online publicly. Um, and then also with organizations, right? So it, has a really nice, um, both, both experiences have different textures and different feels, but, um, what’s really cool is people come for like the skill of how to give an authentic Acknowledgement, um, something other than the tokenistic and tick box script version that sometimes gets shoved into housekeeping, um, moving it to a more authentic place.
But what actually happens during the workshop is it, and Brendon can speak to your example, but like your experience, but it’s, um, what we observed was that people actually move, they move into a heart space and they feel connected to country and they feel connected to each other and they feel connected more within themselves to these concepts and more individually motivated.
So you come in for the skill, uh, and you leave with something much deeper, which we were, um, w it was not our intention, but it just became what it was. Um, and through that, I think our conversation is the vehicle allows that sort of transformation in such a short period of time.
[00:06:23] Brendon: Um, and it, and the day did, or the two hours, I say the day but the two hours felt incredibly conversational, um, and, and really relaxed, which was, which was nice cause I, I showed up. Um, I wanted the skill I’d been doing the, uh, I’d like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land on which we meet, uh, sort of Acknowledgement of Country.
And I, and I knew that that was important and it was important to me, but it wasn’t quite hitting the mark. It didn’t feel as respectful as I might have liked it to. Uh, and you know, I, I cringe and shudder that it ends up in housekeeping. It’s like, oh, okay. So the, you know, the toilets are there, the fire exits are there and the traditional custodians are these people, and now let’s get on with the work.
It’s like, no, don’t, don’t do that to us. It should be so much more than that. Um, and so have been working on that, following the conversation, uh, to get it to where it is at the moment. And I don’t think it’s perfect yet, but it’s progress. Uh, I think it, it better encapsulates what’s important to me. And, you know, it allows me to do some of that introduction stuff because as you mentioned in the workshop, you know, the who’s your mob, where do you come from? Uh, and that was a really, really interesting question for me because I ended up going back to my parents and saying, okay, I know like grandparent level, but who are we beyond that? What’s the next level? What were the surnames? Where did people come from? And it it’s only, you know, three or four generations back, but it took quite a while to find out, okay, who is it? Who, where did, where are we? Where are we from? And so I was like, let’s bring some of that in, uh, and let’s, you know, really show that we are paying attention and we are connecting to the country and we are enjoying living here.
So, um, that’s been really nice to say and having tried it in that way, a couple of times in my, to be approaching 15, 20 times. I’ve had people laugh during Acknowledgement of Country. Like they think that first bits funny, they go poor you, no chateau in the Bordeaux region. I’m like, well, that’s, you know, that’s where I’m at so let’s enjoy that. That’s good. And then, you know, people approach me afterwards and say, that was really nice. It’s the best of Acknowledgement of Country. I’ve heard and I’m like, well, you should go and do this program, go and learn what, how to do yours. So that, that was really nice feedback to get, because I want it to be respectful, but I want it to be authentic and I don’t want to upset or offend anyone, which is, again, something that I learnt, uh, from, from you both is kind of hard to do that.
What’s your experience with Acknowledgement of country, Emma?
[00:09:12] Emma: Um, yeah, I mean, I I’m, well, I mean, it, my experience has been one of curiosity and discovery, right? Cause like moving, um, I’ve moved around a bunch. Um, I worked as a international political campaigner for a decade plus and so moving to different countries and jurisdictions and different cultures and learning about the place, um, so that I could help, um, the candidate or the advocacy or the issue that I was working on succeed.
Um, that was something I was well, well accustomed to was adopting and chameleoning, almost becoming a chameleon in the space I inhibit. All right. You know, that I was living in and moving to Australia. Um, when I first started to see this acknowledgement of country practice, I was so I was in awe and so it just, it started a spark of excitement cause coming from Northern Minnesota, um, we have the Ojibwe people’s, um, and I’m on Chippewa land specifically and you know, but you just don’t, we don’t have that same integration.
Like I had a childhood friend who’s Ojibwe. Um, the casinos are led by the native American Chippewa people found the Chippewa. Um, but it was like, but it just didn’t have that same prevalence and for someone who loves culture, um, the power of culture. Um, it was great to see it so explicitly expressed here in Australia.
And then when I found out that I could actually participate in it, I was like, oh my goodness, how cool. Um, and I think there is, I mean, there’s a, there’s a, there’s a. Um, I’m, I’m trying to balance how heavy to go into some of these concepts. Cause I’m very, I’m, I’ve done a lot of work on privilege and bias and knowing the space I take up as a white fella, as a female, as a educated person, as a socio-economically middle plus class person, like, you know, there’s so many dimensions of dominant privileges that I, um, exist within.
And so I’m just trying to balance like, Hmm. How far into the, like into the theory, do you want to go or into the experience, but I’ll um, I’ll, I’ll dial it back from there. So, Yeah, but it was great to have a friend in Rhys. We met, uh, at a house party, um, you know, through a mutual friend, right? Like we were just, we were friends, you know, we had beers and coffees and we just started talking about this thing. It was great to have an, a friend to call. It’s almost like, um, like a hotline, like call your friend. Hey Rhys I’m going to Kalgoolie what do I do? You know, they’re like, Hey, I saw someone do it like this. Can I do it like that? Like it started in this most. Um, it’s yeah, it started from friendship, which is I think the best way to learn.
And I think we just have opened up that space of conversation and friendship for others to participate into.
[00:11:49] Brendon: Yeah, I agree. I think some of the best ideas I have, uh, with friends in a relaxed atmosphere, um, where we have the opportunity to explore and ask some of those questions that like, is that a dumb question? Should I be, should I be asking that or should it, is it, should I be, uh, be more aware? Should I, am I, am I, you know, Is my privilege showing as someone who sits pretty close as well to the center of the wheel of privilege,
[00:12:20] Emma: And the world has moved very fast around this in some ways right? And I, I’m very empathetic that, you know, there are generations of people who are coming up right now who are immersed in these topics and it’s, you know it’s just the, the ocean that they live in. It’s very obvious to, um, generations coming up through school now, whereas people who, you know, even for myself going through school, it wasn’t something we talked about.
And I can only imagine what it was like for my parents and their parents. And so, um, you know, I think we hold a lot of compassion that we’re all learning and that’s okay. Yeah. Rhys, what do you reckon? Like, how did you, like, what’s your connection to an acknowledgement of country and especially now after we’ve done this work for like two years externally, but our conversation for four years, like, what’s your connection to acknowledging country?
[00:13:11] Rhys: Almost like I’m trying to figure out how to say this differently from like one experience. Right. Cause I mentioned in the, you know, Acknowledge This! About, um, it’s something that was there in high school, all of a sudden. Okay. And then it was something that I had to do as in the role of, um, the AIEO role that I was, uh, um, my job, part of my job was to read the scripts. I eventually get to the point where it was, um, not don’t even eventually, like I still hear this today where. Um, because I teach it now. Right. I’m like, I swear. I just get, I’m just hyper-critical with everybody’s acknowledgements. Cause I, and I can’t not be, you know what I mean? So whenever I hear one, I almost have like this, this expectation of standard of like, where I place that in, like how good that is, you know what I mean?
And like, and, and, and, um, I still feel like I still cringe so much of the time because, um, when people don’t, again, it’s just like, I can’t, I’ll never know. I will never know what their intention truly is, right? But you can, you can be pretty sure when you’ve got somebody who does one that at the beginning of a thing, and it’s like, you just go, I don’t think there’s any connection there whatsoever. And I’m pretty sure they were told to do this again I can’t know. And I’ll always give, always give as much respect as I can possibly muster when I hear that. But, um, yeah, it becomes difficult. Right. And I’m like, God, I just want people to, uh, I feel more comfortable in doing it or just not do it at all.
Like I hate the idea of it being like this thing that people feel like there’s a gun on their head. Like you have to do it like, and that’s how you show your respect. I’m like, I don’t think that’s how you show anybody respect by not being, or not saying words that are meaningful to you. So if anything, it’s like, it’s, it’s, it’s sometimes perceived as this like it can be perceived that way and it can be received that way as just like something meaningless and something that’s just people say. But I love the idea of flipping it to the, to the point where it’s like, you can make it the most meaningful, uh, sense of presence, sense of connection, sense of everything at the beginning of the thing, like, I want to see how far you can create the best words out of what is seemingly seeming.
What’s the, the most basic and scared, like little things that people think that they have to do. Does that make sense? That’s sort of how I consider it.
[00:15:42] Emma: Yeah, but like, you know, and that’s like, yeah. W um, we like to say that we’re not experts in this, right? We’ve just, we’ve just had 7,000 conversations with people, so we have a lot of evidence, but we aren’t like the Acknowledgement of country police, right. You know, it’s not like we know the answer, but, um, what I do enjoy is Rhys and I are always trying to push the boundaries and the frontiers, and I’ve been running some experiments, um, for what works for my acknowledgements, but Rhys, like. that’s a beautiful, like, not quite judgment, but assessment of external people acknowledgements, like how has your own relationship with acknowledging country? Has it changed much or is it still pretty similar to when we started? I’m just curious now from my own,
[00:16:22] Rhys: Oh, you mean like when I, when
[00:16:24] Emma: like for you, yeah. For you, when you deliver our feel called to?
[00:16:28] Rhys: I. It’s like always a process and the authenticity arrives. So like, there’s like the process way. The process answer of that is like, I have a good, strong processed to acknowledgement myself, which I do at the beginning of every one of our trainings. Right. And like, that’s good because it’s processed in a way which enables me to add the meaning into it.
Cause it has made those words meaningful. I’ve structured it that way, where it’s like, that makes sense that’s meaningful. The ones where it’s like, oh, when I feel called to do it, or when it’s something that’s outside of the training or something like that, um, those ones are good too, because it’s more like I’m on a new place here now.
Mianjin, what does that mean? So I’ll look up what that means and like what the context of this place is here. So it’s, it’s forever changing, right? It’s always going to have a mental is going to add to the process, the process version as well. So it’s always changing. Um, wherever I go in, it’s like constantly in a state of evolution, sure. Um, but yeah, I still, you know, I still lock onto the processed acknowledgements as well, right? Yeah.
[00:17:35] Brendon: YEah, part of me wants to ask part of me. Doesn’t like, how did I do, how much cringing was there? Good intent was received.
[00:17:46] Rhys: It’s like, it’s like, it’s already, it’s already better than like 99% of the ones that you hear generally, anyway, you know what I mean? Because, because it’s something that comes from came from you and I, I, you can tell that it’s not like you were reading off a script with like a scared feeling. You know what I mean?
So, yeah. I mean, I’m not gonna rate it out of 10 or anything,
[00:18:05] Brendon: uh, please. Don’t.
[00:18:06] Rhys: it’s still, it’s still, it’s still great. It’s still fun.
[00:18:09] Emma: It’s not a competition
[00:18:11] Brendon: No, no, it’s not.
[00:18:13] Emma: we should, we don’t hold a space of judgment and we shouldn’t hold the space of judgment when people are bringing their authentic experience into a cultural practice,
[00:18:24] Brendon: Yeah. And that’s thank you. Um, it’s something, I’ve, there’s a couple of workshops that I run where I meet with the same group a couple of times a week, over a period of time, 10 weeks. And so rather than them hearing my acknowledgement of country for every session, I feel called to acknowledge for the first one and to open the session up with good intent and recognize the land on which I’m connecting to people from because it’s virtual.
But then for future sessions, I extend the invitation for other people to have a go, you know, it’s our space and let them do acknowledgement of country. And it’s interesting because for a lot of them, it’s the first opportunity that they’ve had a chance to complete acknowledgement of country in front of a group of peers and colleagues and what have you.
And some of them just freeze. They, I can’t do it. I don’t have the words in front of me or I don’t know what to say or can I do it next time because I want to practice. And so, you know, that invites a lovely conversation, reflection around, um,
What do, how do we work through that? How do we be authentic in that? What is it that you want to say? Um, don’t worry about the words and the card and the, you know, the email, um,
[00:19:54] Emma: signature
[00:19:55] Brendon: block. Yeah. That’s all there. That’s, you know, it’s great that we’re that far, but what is it that’s important to you?
What would you like to talk about? And, um, they all, it’s nice to hear their reflections afterwards. It was good to be able to acknowledge, to share my thoughts, to be a part of that. And what do I do the next time I have to do it? Where can I go? What can I do? And of course, I just send them to your website and say, get along and check out, Acknowledge This!
[00:20:26] Rhys: Emma has really good strategy. Um, Emma has a really good strategy, um, when she does her keynotes, um, outside of what we do. Right. So when she’s doing her thing, um, and Emma do you want to explain that with you’re feeling connected.
[00:20:41] Emma: Yeah. Yeah. So it’s funny. Cause like we’re, we’re still experimenting, right. And we’re still trying to push this. Um, and so, um, yeah, I ran a workshop in December. I think it was or January. I was like, you know what Stuff this whole acknowledgement of country label as the first agenda item, agenda item on the agenda.
And then I instead did connecting to each other and to country as the first agenda item. So bringing that purpose and intent of connection right up front to the, to the very front of it and naming it for that, the meaning behind the process of the label of an acknowledgement of country. Um, and it was, it was great, right? Cause people. And they didn’t expect the script. And then when I did say something about being on Whadjuk Noongar lands, they were like, oh my gosh, are we in the acknowledgement right now? What happened? I thought that was just going to be an icebreaker, you know? And so, um, so I think there’s still clever ways to play with it, but you know, the root of it is connection and, um, there’s many paths to get to connection.
And so I’m, I’m, we’re always like Rhys and I very much hold open the call to please innovate, find new ways to bring connection into your gatherings and let us know how you do it within that. Um, you know, in the acknowledgement of country sits at that intersection of traditional culture into a modern cultural practice, but, um, there’s still so much, so many more ways we can integrate it more meaningfully into our work and into business as usual.
[00:22:03] Rhys: I just love it because it removes that that preconceived bias of what people think. Like, cause again, it’s like, oh, who wants to do the acknowledgement and there’s like automatically in people’s minds. It’s just like, oh, okay. What’s the words. What’s the things thing. Some like that way you can get you’re achieving the same thing, but you’re just not, you’re removing that bias of it.
Now you’re moving that, that misconception of what they think it should be just by changing the title so I thought that was clever, I’m going to use that.
[00:22:27] Emma: Yeah.
[00:22:30] Brendon: So you’ve spoken a little bit about acknowledge this and a little bit about some of the other stuff that you do. Uh, w what is it that, um, you most enjoy doing out of everything that you do?
[00:22:46] Emma: Public sessions for sho. I think, I mean, what, what were you thinking?
[00:22:54] Rhys: Um, I can’t pick, that’s a great question. Like, I can’t really think of like one thing. Like I love, like, I love the public sessions as much as the private sessions, but I also love the process of developing the book and doing, like, go into the meetings and like, it’s all just one big thing for me. So it’s not like if I could put a
[00:23:20] Emma: Yeah, and it is, um, you, you have to understand the culture within our teams. We now have a team of six, so it’s us two and then four people who support us in a variety of full-time and part-time roles. And so within our team, we have a culture where fun is a core value. So there was a project recently where I was like, Rhys, I have an idea. What about this? And I ask them out of 10, how fun would this be for you? That’s the main requirement for if the project progresses or not. So it’s funny that you ask that because it’s like, well, we’ve designed the entire thing to be fun. So all of it, question mark.
[00:23:53] Brendon: Oh, what a nice place to be able to, to be. Uh, and it’s someone who, you know, that’s a question I ask myself regularly as well. Like I could do that, whatever it might be, but would it be fun or, or am I going to agree to it now and go, yeah, that’s money in the bank account. That’s, you know, something to do on that day, but I’ll get, you know, in the lead up to it, I’ll be dreading it on the day I’ll be flat and, burnt out and over it, and afterwards I’ll go, well, that was it’s good that that’s done. If that’s the case, maybe I’m better to, to say, know what I am better to say no to those things and
[00:24:31] Rhys: yeah.
[00:24:32] Brendon: do something else.
[00:24:34] Rhys: Yeah. Like, and it’s almost like that’s the core, like Emma said, like, that’s, that’s a very important thing because we, just Emma and I outside of the team that we’ve know, um, that we now hired, but just Emma and I we’ve always just done what was it quite enjoyable for us? Whether it’s the conversations or the designing or the developing, it’s always been like, we have to have the enjoyment, the work come came second to that because we enjoy doing the things.
And, um, we’re in a place of enjoyment all the time and having fun that just sort of then caves and then the money comes then the, then the programs comes, the workshop comes and it just kind of keeps snowballing. Cause I’m only ever having more and more fun with this.
[00:25:17] Emma: Yeah, I suppose yeah Rhys I’m struck by the, um, the journey of how like, so like it started as friendship and then it had two years of very organic growth, you know, two people hosting a zoom meeting and it’s very beginning. And then we’re like, oh crap we should even make like a brand. Or like, maybe we should like a pricing model together or like, it just, it had this really organic first two years, again, just sort of driven.
We both had full-time jobs on the side. Right? Like it was just this thing that grew, um, through joy. And this is the first year 2022, where we’re taking, we both committed to it full-time and are taking it in that more proactive, um, assessment, but yet still keeping fun at the center. So it is, um, it’s an emergent process out of love, which is yeah beautiful high five, well done Rhys. this. has been really fun.
[00:26:07] Rhys: what I mean? That’s great because it’s like, I’m just, um, I’m literally saying the same thing. I’m sorry, but it’s like things outside of just the workshops and the programs. It’s great. Because like, even right now in this moment with Brendon is like, this is a new thing for us. We have not done this before.
This is, so now we get the chance to, to, uh, articulate things differently, to think about things differently to, um, to play in a different space because of just the natural progression of how it’s come to be. So I’m just giving yet again, just an I’m just giving an example like a right now example of
[00:26:39] Emma: Yeah, like in this moment.
[00:26:41] Rhys: this very moment.
I’m enjoying this, you know,
[00:26:43] Emma: Just add one little texture too. Cause I think it’s, um, like we also have booked in fun time. Right? So like, I remember it was the end of last year, right? Like we had, we had had a big year, we had sprinted to December, like December 19th was our last workshop. And then December 20th, we just went to my house and played video games and like hung out in the yard and like, you know, as friends.
Like we just, we had like actual just friend time and even still, um, every, we regularly make sure that that time is carved out and that it doesn’t get lost in the work. Um, and I think if you are doing something, a project with a friend, um, Yeah.
Make sure that that doesn’t get lost and that, that is we’re friends first and business partners second, you know?
[00:27:20] Rhys: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And if one of us is like, oh, I’m tired today. The other one’s just starting to go, well, all right, let me, what do you need from me? Right. That’s our favorite question, right Emma, it’s like, okay, you good you need anything from me? And like, I’ll get you, you get me a COVID Emma for, for six months while she was doing her, um, uh, the COVID comms communications role.
That I don’t even remember what the correct title was. Sorry, but, you know, and then, but like, you know, if I was doing stuff with city of Sterling or I was doing other stuff, we’re at a point where we weren’t doing this full-time right. We, we were sort of like pinpointing it and fitting it in like little puzzle pieces wherever we could.
Um, but, um, that’s another part of the culture that exists is that we’ll, we’ll make sure it gets done. Um, if we can’t energetically show up on that day or a week, Yeah.
[00:28:08] Brendon: Yeah, I like scheduled fun. I’m going to, uh, something I’ve kind of unconsciously done, but if I bring more intent to it, I think that will be useful as well. You know? Cause there’s a busy period and as we approach end of financial year and then let’s schedule some fund in, which is kind of be good as well.
So I have to get onto that find some time in the calendar. I like it. Yeah. Fun. You will have fun for this three hour period.
[00:28:40] Emma: Well, and I’m going to use an example, which, um, I think everyone in the listening will relate to either if you have a uterus or if you don’t, But like, think about it in like the monthly, you know, cycle that people with uteruses go through. Right. You know, you have this period where you have so much energy and estrogen and everything’s bumping, and then you’re in ovulation and you’re ready to create it to do and to be so present, it’s such a high energy period then of course it wanes.
And then it goes into a really low period and it has that moment to rest and reflect and look back at all the work that was done and then jump right into it again and have that cycle and that energy and that increase in the yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then it goes down and it rests and it gets quiet and it reflects, and it pauses, you know, and I think so much of our world has become so linearly driven and linearly upward over increasing to the point where it doesn’t, you know, it doesn’t actually work.
How can we actually think about our work in circles and cycles rather than. Linear progression upwards always, but again, that’s another.
[00:29:45] Brendon: But it surprises people there’s a session I run on career and I say to people, it’s okay to be happy where you are. It’s okay to hit the pause button on career you don’t always have to be hunting that next opportunity or that next job or that next development piece. And they’re lik what do you mean? Is that okay, Mike?
Well, as long as it’s intentional. Like don’t get stuck there and in six years ago, oh, how did I get stuck here?
[00:30:11] Emma: um,
[00:30:12] Brendon: But if you want to hit the pause button, enjoy what you’re doing, reflect on it. Have a bit of fun. Hone your skill. Why would you not because there is this desire, like get to that next level, get to that next position, get
the bigger
[00:30:27] Emma: more.
[00:30:28] Brendon: in. It’s just unsustainable,
[00:30:30] Emma: Hmm.
[00:30:31] Brendon: Usually you reach a point where you either have to wait for someone to retire or die in order to get to the next level and sometimes people take longer than others to do either of those things.
[00:30:39] Emma: Um, and culturally COVID forced us all to pause. So maybe we saw the value in moving slower and in simple things and I think that’s one of the beautiful things about an acknowledgement of country is it’s a simple practice. It doesn’t actually require, it has a very low barrier to entry and yet it can be so rewarding and meaningful, like how I brought it right back, try to loop in the theme.
[00:31:07] Brendon: Yeah, that’s all right. It’s a conversation. It goes, or it goes it’s coaches in conversation about, or anything. Coaching and coaching is a life thing. It’s very hard to keep it. Oh this is the we’re only coaching on this bit today because it connects with so much other stuff that people are doing. What challenges do you find people bring along to acknowledge
[00:31:32] Rhys: Fear
[00:31:33] Brendon: Fear?
[00:31:33] Rhys: They fear everyone’s fear everyone’s scared. Everyone’s scared of, uh, trying something new. Everyone’s scared, but mainly, mainly everybody’s scared of, um, navigating a culture and a people that they don’t understand. And they’ve never met very little, um, uh, interaction with, and this is not like it’s an irrational fear. Don’t get me wrong. I’m not saying like, oh, you should feel bad for feeling fear at all, but don’t misunderstand what I’m saying there. I’m just saying that, um, there is a people always, it’s always the same in this space. It’s beyond just acknowledgement of country as well as, as is reconciliation and, uh, within the space of reconciliation.
Um, there’s always the intent of the general Australians, where they go. I like the idea of understanding and learning. I like the idea of being connected with, uh, our local Aboriginal, uh, cultures. That’s great news. The, the, the hurdle always the bed point is like, but I don’t know where to start. And also I’m afraid of doing something wrong and that’s in almost every single aspect of the work that I do.
And there’s so many branches I can go from there. But in a nutshell, that seems to be the, um, that seems to be the biggest thing that stops us is the fear, the fear of, um, the fear of it all.
[00:32:54] Emma: Hmm. Um, the only other shade I would add to that and, you know, Rhys right. We can talk about fear for a whole 45 minutes, if you want to go ahead and do that. Right. And I’m sure many of your coaches encounter fear in their clients as well. I think we all. understand that fear is such a barrier, but, um, I’ll add another observation we came to the, in the last year is that both, um, migrants and indigenous peoples, um, some of the, the words of the feelings that they evoke is one of like guilt and shame and that it’s from both sides of the coin, right. Um, my family are colonizers and I should feel bad for the generations of colonization that they did and ugh, or like, oh, the culture was shamed out of me. And my granny was part of the stolen generation and there’s so much, you know, I, I wasn’t allowed to speak my language and, you know, guilt and shame is where like the emotional or the energetic position that many people are in when they come to this conversation.
And Rhys and I have made a really deliberate choice to do a frame or present things in that positive and optimistic vision because moving people from guilt and shame into a higher level of energetic participation, one towards love, um, is where this actual where we believe the change will occur. And when people are actually operating and participating from that space, a higher space of love and compassion.
Um, that’s when we’ll actually start to see change rather than continuing to, to sit in the pain of the trauma, which is real. Um, but maybe we needed another story.
[00:34:32] Rhys: Yeah. I’ve been into trainings where I’ve seen the positioning of the cultural awareness training for example, it’s positioned in the, in the guilt and the shame. And again, it’s like, okay, we can’t, I can work. I guess that can work. But I, I, I find it interesting because if there’s a, if there’s a, if you’re delivering this content in a way, which is in that space, oh, let me teach you about Aboriginal history. Let me teach you about why it was so, uh, why was so horrific, which is true. It sort of keeps the people then go, oh, well, inform my, my drive for change needs to be that out of, um, righting the wrongs of the past and, and, uh, in being in that space of guilt and shame then, but then again, it’s like, I’ve seen the trainings where it’s like in the two worlds of the modern and the traditional, this is what works and this is what harmonizes.
I find it really great because then people start getting excited when it’s in the space of like Emma said in a space of love when people go, oh, these things that we can actually learn here from Aboriginal people. That is beyond just trauma. Like it’s like, oh, there’s actually things here that we sort of forgotten as a society, like in the modern world about, oh, that’s right.
Like people before business, like that’s a, oh yeah. I forgot that, that, um, you know, me as an individual in a community is kind of important and I’m like, great. Well, if it’s Aboriginal people, that’s going to teach you that. Then I’m happy to be a conduit for that, my friends. But, um, until then, it’s like, we’re trying to navigate between those worlds because they’re both, they’re both real.
They’re both, they’re both, they’re both real, but you know, that’s just how we do it.
[00:36:09] Emma: I love that example Rhys cause I remember the day you said that like where you’re like you and acknowledgement is about connecting before getting into the business and connecting, as people I still remember it was like three years ago now. But I remember just like the truth of that washing over me and yet how I is such a big brain process driven project management mind, like I’m big into process system data, you know, and then you saying that, and I was like, oh, that is a universal truth that I had lost almost. Um, and yeah, of course reintegrating it in my life has brought so much joy and pleasure. So thank you brother for teaching it to me, but
[00:36:46] Rhys: oh, you’re welcome my sister
[00:36:47] Emma: yeah, absolutely.
[00:36:47] Rhys: We have you know what? was always, um, it literally yesterday, like I picked this up yesterday with the mob that I was with here the client that I was with here. And it’s, it’s very, it’s a very modern and procedural way of like introducing yourself. Right. But this is the thing.
And I’m like, let me, and I know the difference between, again, this is a modern and traditional thing that’s happening here in my mind. So I’m getting there and, you know, I’m introduced to all these people and there’s the CEO and lovely lady names, Ainslie. And, uh, this is the general manager and they’re like, hi, Rhys.
And everybody’s introducing their title first, right? They’re like, hi, my name is, and then they’d go, this is what I do here. And this is like my job. And this is like, I oversee this and this is my accounting, and this is what I do. And then I’m like, that’s great. That’s beautiful. Thanks for telling me your title.
But at the same time, I’m like, if this was an Aboriginal business, you wouldn’t be telling me your title first. You’d be telling me who your mob is first. You’ll be telling me who you connect to first, if you telling me where your country is first, right. And then you’d be telling me, that’s why I always had, I had to follow up this question. I was like, oh, thanks. Thanks for telling me your title. But who are you? Like what, like, um, what do you like doing, like, do you enjoy this job? This is my favorite question. Why do you enjoy what you do? You know what I mean? Because I’m trying to give that Aboriginal lens of like, can we, can we bring back to the individual first?
And then you can tell me about the, the title second, you know? So it happens all the time. You know what I mean? It’s not like it’s the right way or wrong way, I guess, but that’s a modern and traditional thing and I’m like, you gotta, you mob need needs cultural awareness training and I’m teaching. I’m going to reteach you.
That you’re important. Thank you.
[00:38:13] Emma: Yeah. classic. Cause it’s like the classic networking scenario as well, where you’re in the room and people like, what do you do for work? Like, that’s the first question. Um, and I made a conscious choice to change that. What do you do for fun? So, yeah, like being aware of the questions you’re asking in the space it’s creating, had connection has been lost.
[00:38:28] Brendon: Yeah.
[00:38:28] Rhys: favorite question to ask people now is, um, just what do you like? And I’ll do this. I’ll just do this. Like with just the random people I meet. Cause that to be networking, I said, what do you like? And it always kind of throws people off because they don’t know how to answer it. They’re like, oh, what do you, what do you mean?
Like, what do I, what do I like in my job? And I’m like, okay, if that’s where you want to go. Cause I deliberately leave it open-ended because I just kind of want to see where they take that because it’s still something that’s meaningful. So to say, what do you like?
[00:38:53] Emma: I like, the color blue.
[00:38:55] Rhys: cool.
[00:38:55] Emma: can take it any direction
[00:38:56] Rhys: But that’s something that can connect me to you.
Cause I’m more of a green person. See later that. But um, yeah. I don’t know.
[00:39:02] Brendon: Yeah. We’re reasonably notorious in Canberra as well with, um, where do you work? Because it’s a heavy public service. And that seems to be the question that’s asked
[00:39:12] Emma: status
[00:39:12] Brendon: Yeah. Where do you work? And so I’ve been asking. What are you enjoying at the moment, which is a similar version of what it is that you’ve been asking and people yeah. They look at you funny, like why does it matter what I’m enjoying? Like it’s because you are. And I think, you know, that moment around, um, you know, what else can we learn when you were telling that story Rhys? It just took me back to after my wife finished university graduated, um, she’s like, oh, we’ve got to go to the Northern territory. I’d really like to go back there. She holidayed there with her family when they were young and did this big drive into a thing and it was awesome. And I was like, okay, I’m up for that. And we were, we flew to Uluru and I remember seeing, uh, the rock, I went there expecting to see the rock and I still remember thinking there is no doubt as to why this is a place of spiritual significance. Like it, it still took my breath away and I’d seen the photos and I can’t imagine what it would have been like to not be expecting to see it. But then we went to Alice Springs and we were, we’re doing some things around there. And there was this group, there’s a little park and there was a couple of groups of, um, I’m assuming indigenous people and they were painting and they’re just sitting there connecting and chatting in the shade under the tree, you know, like, uh, putting dots in and making this beautiful artwork.
And I remember likeI tapped Simone on the shoulders, look at that. And she was like, yeah, that’s, that’s, it looks like a really nice image. And I’m like, how did we get it so wrong? Like there is no way I would get together with a group of my friends, sit under a tree and paint for an afternoon and just talk and connect and share and have story.
Where did we lose
[00:41:03] Emma: Why not challenge accepted.
[00:41:05] Brendon: I know. It sounds great. Doesn’t it? But it’s not something I would think to do. And yet there, it was in front of me.
[00:41:12] Rhys: Yeah. I mean, that’s the empowering thing though, right? Is that it’s like, that’s not outside of your control now. Like, you know, if that’s something that it’s like, anything, like you said, it resonates with you now it’s like, be the leader, be the leader, be the leader in that change, kind of, you know,
[00:41:28] Brendon: Yeah. So that was, that’s still something I, um, I reflect foundly on that, that image again. That would that’s. That would be cool. But then you’re right. the leader, Brendon,
[00:41:40] Emma: It 50 bucks. Yeah. Like just go to Bunnings, get some paint, you know, sit down with your mates and be like, all right, guys, we’re going to try painting. Now. We’re going to sit in yarn for two hours and then I’ll buy you a beer afterwards. All right. let’s go. You
know, and it.
[00:41:54] Rhys: Or you could have you could have a couple of beers beforehand and just get completely wasted and then pine, cause that’ll be an old, that’ll be another awesome experience.
[00:42:05] Emma: um, but it does take courage. Right? And this is what we mean when we say the innovation space, like, um, acknowledgement of country and bringing these cultures together and defining and living into a new culture that does have elements from traditional and modern culture and kind of taking the bits of both.
It takes a lot of courage to, to see how you want it to be different, to feel how you want it to be different and then live into that. Um, and so I think that’s why, you know, our, we have Acknowledge This! And then we have a follow-up training Acknowledge That! And other products, which moves people into action, because that’s where we can take these concepts and really put them into practice and begin to actively shape the world and the culture around us, not just the journey within.
[00:42:50] Brendon: Yep. And you mentioned a book I’m always intrigued when people say there’s a book. How did you go writing a book? What’s the book about?
[00:42:58] Emma: Um, so yeah, we actually were sitting in the room I’m sitting in now. I know Rhys, this is just how I am. Okay. She’s laughing.
[00:43:06] Rhys: You know, I accept you for that. That’s all right.
[00:43:09] Emma: thank you. Um, so yeah, so we actually, it was like towards the end of last year, maybe November. So it was like five months ago now. And, um, we were sitting around having a yarn and it just sort of bubbled up that we were like, yeah, we should write a book next.
Like maybe that’s sort of the next thing that we should do. Hey. Um, or some type of resource to continue the conversation and continue working with, um, the community that we’ve started to garner we’ve, we’ve had over 7,000 people attend, acknowledge this across Australia. So how do we create something for people to take away and continue to use?
And, um, So we booked in a time uh, Friday morning at like 9:00 AM to 12:00 PM. And it was like, you know, figure out how book, question mark, or like book session one, and like Googling how to write a book. And we, it was really a beautiful experience because in those, in those couple of hours, um, we sat down and we just, we had like everything.
We just had a conversation between us. Who’s the voice? Who is this for? What’s the purpose? What do we want to talk about? What’s the message. And, um, after about 45 minutes, it just, it was like the tap turned on and it just started to flow and all these post-its populated themselves. And we did probably 75% of the book’s contents that is still it’s going to print and will be published, um, just in that very first session.
And, um, I’ve, I haven’t recently felt anything quite like it, because it genuinely felt like the spirit was just moving through us. Like just truly being a vehicle for something, um, and just being present and really open to whatever it was that came from that space of, um, connection and friendship. So that’s how it started.
But Rhys, what’s the book about how do you describe from country with love?
[00:44:50] Rhys: So what we had, uh, come up with the question was really like, well, what do we know? What are we good at? Like, what is, what, what do we talk about? What’s the conversation we’re constantly talking about what culture people, community country. So we thought about that word country, you know, we talk about country and of course in the context of acknowledging country, we always talk about it in the context of acknowledging it as if it is alive as if it is alive as if it is from that Aboriginal perspective, what Noongars call a wirrun or a spirit.
Uh, and it’s like, well, what does that mean? Okay. But there’s lots of different concepts as to what that could mean. Um, it sure could be geographical space, so, okay. We sort of have like, um, a page on. What geographical space would be? Oh, it could be like a feeling. Okay. We’ve got a page on what that feeling might look like or might feel like it could be the song lines and we talk about the song or when you pull the music, um, that connects, um, as people to country, it could be breath. It could be the, uh, the dream, the dreaming, what that is. It could be. So essentially what we came up with is a series of illustrations, um, that compliment these concepts for you as the reader to interpret for yourself.
So what we didn’t wanna do was say, like, we’re going to teach you a concept. Um, for like w what I’m going to teach you the concept that we have specifically for you to, like, for you to get, we are going to provide a space where it’s, here’s a drawing with like a little, um, with a few words about the concept for you to sort of subjectively come to your own conclusion about what that means to you.
At least it’s sort of, again, just, just to preface it as more than just the geographical space of what we’re so used to thinking, um, about country as being, um, that’s, that’s essentially, uh,
[00:46:34] Emma: Yeah. And I guess our hope or like the, what, why you should read it is because it’s about connection and it’s, it’s a book to really help unpack your connection and make you think about your connection to country and to place and to people around you and to each other. And so it kind of moves you into that space.
Um, one of my favorite pages is a concept Rhys has only recently shared with me. And it happened during the book process. Um, uh, the, the page is, um, it’s a spread of, you know, like a fence going down the road and then there’s trees and then there’s city on one side and it says our worlds are not so different, in fact, they are the same. And you know, there’s so many things you can unpack in that, you know, that like nature the natural world in the built environment world. Um, but it’s all country and that’s something, um, And you know, you’ll take your own things from looking at it and reading it, but it was just sort of, um, this amazing moment.
We were sitting here in this room again, you know, in a building made of steel and concrete in the middle of the CBD of Perth. And I was like, oh, I wish we were, we were doing this book edit on, uh, out in the nature right out in the country, out in the Bush. And Rhys turned to me was like, what do you think we’re not on country right now?
Of course we are. And I was like, oh, oh my golly, we are, Hey,
[00:47:49] Rhys: And ideally like, that’s it, right? Like it’s, it’s kinda the, the other good. The other, the other sort of purpose is like, you can sort of land on any of those pages and then start your own conversation, not just with yourself, but with other people. So you can say, you know, I look at this page page here. You know, um, our worlds are not so different, in fact they are the same, and then it’s like, what does that mean to you? And then people will sort of come. And it’s funny. Cause when we, when we started sharing this in the early stages with people, people did this thing where they kind of go, this is what I think is that correct? Dot, dot, dot question mark.
Like they asked me and I’m like, well, don’t ask that question. Right? It’s like, that’s the, the, the purpose of it is for you to sort of, um, I’ll, I’ll be like, this is what it means to me. This is what it means to Emma, you know? Um, but, uh, it, there’s not like a right really, there’s not really like a right answer from, from our perspective.
[00:48:43] Brendon: Okay. Did I get it right? Did I get it right?
[00:48:46] Emma: Yeah.
[00:48:47] Brendon: that there is no right. Or if you agree with what you think, then I suppose you can decide whether it’s right, but.
[00:48:53] Emma: Well, and especially in this space of culture right. And creating a new culture because, um, we often, like we talk a lot about reconciliation, right. And how it’s a direction we can move in, not a destination. Right. It’s actually hard to know what the tangible destination looks and feels like, because we have to kind of co-design it as we go.
And so what, what do you get from that? What does it mean to you? That’s part of the process of finding this middle ground that works for everyone where, you know, it requires everyone to assert what they think and what they feel in order to co create this environment that, you know, doesn’t exist quite yet, but we’re, we’re living into it and creating it together.
[00:49:32] Brendon: Wonderful. And, uh, have you found zoom? Cause you said you’d run your workshops predominantly, on zoom and we’re all reasonably familiar up. Well, not all, but I know I’m way more familiar with it than I was a couple of years ago. What are you learning about connecting with people through Zoom?
[00:49:51] Rhys: I I actually love it though. I think it’s fun. Um, like we, we, yeah, like originally we kind of designed it that way. Right. So, um, it’s so seamless at this point with zoom. Like we, we, we were happy to do it in zoom simultaneously. It’s almost like, yeah, actually I had this a bit of an epiphany of this yesterday when I ran it in person, which is rare again, it’s rare, but we offer it either way.
We just say, it’s just that most of the, the, um, most of our clients come through zoom, because again, it’s like usually a whole bunch of people from anywhere around the country, right. And I was thinking about this. I was like, ah, and I sort of reflected after I did my one hour, Acknowledge This! with the client yesterday.
And I was like, do I enjoy that more or less than zoom? And again, I come back to the same thing, as I was saying, like 20 minutes ago, I was like, I don’t think there’s more or a less it’s just different. And I was like, I love doing it in person because it’s a different sort of environment. Sure. We are, we are, we have tuned it to, to zoom.
Like we’ve, we’ve polished it to, to fit zoom extremely well as well. So, um, yeah.
[00:50:52] Emma: Yeah, I’m a, I’m a digital, native and early adopter so I’ve been well familiar with zoom and digital organizing techniques. A lot of digital tools have been familiar for again over six years, probably. So prepaid pandemics showed up and I’m like, All right. let’s get to it. Here’s how you virtually facilitate.
Like, I was straight out of the gates and I remember, yeah, Rhys I remember for the week, You discovered emojis and zoom and you would just the whole trading we’re doing like love hearts emoji.
[00:51:18] Rhys: right. Yep. You get the celebration emoji, you get the emoji.
[00:51:23] Emma: So you said
[00:51:24] Rhys: extend it now. And like here’s a little cat face emoji. No, I know you can’t see this. If you’re listening to the podcast, I’m sorry, but you can actually, yeah, you gotta leverage. That’s a great me.
[00:51:33] Emma: So we’ve come in with different thresholds. Um, and then again has allowed for a really beautiful design of the ch the session. So it has, you know, the expertise of what tools are available and then what is accessible to everyone and what feels familiar and, and, um, yeah. Nie. And so, yeah, so we’ve designed it that way.
I have loved zoom because of the, um, particularly with our public sessions because it allows people from all across Australia to get together and have a shared moment. And there’s a bit of like, there’s an intimacy to it, right? The fact that we can come from all different countries, from all different places, someone who’s up north or in the Bush, you know, very remotely located to someone who’s in a Metro area, come together in a zoom room and have a yarn about what country means to them.
Like, I just love that the ability to connect across borders and have used zoom as a platform to connect across, um, all my friends across time zones, you know, in like many, many borders. And it’s just the, you know, it’s such an opportunity I’m I am stoked that the rest of the world has caught up and now zoom is a very known thing.
I’m like, yes, everybody finally arrived to the party. Let’s go is so much we can do so. But Yeah. in-person is nice too.
[00:52:39] Brendon: Yeah. I, I agree with what you said there Rhys it’s just different. I did face-to-face earlier in the weekend, virtual for the rest of it and you know, there’s an efficiency there’s, um, uh, speed there’s, uh, th that different distances. So we get different perspectives that you just miss out on if you don’t have, if you’re not virtual, if you’re face to face.
Um, and then there’s an energy and a connection and a vibrancy of, of being in the same room as well. But I don’t think, um, I don’t think of one better than the other.
[00:53:15] Rhys: Yeah.
[00:53:15] Brendon: I just think that they’re just two different things. Um, and they create different opportunities and, uh, it’s not zoom, but one of the other platforms has a little hare icon in it, like a, the tortoise in their hare.
So they’ve got both. One is go slower. One is go faster. And I liked the hare cause my French surname, Le Lievre is the hare. So I’m like, oh, they put that in there for me. That’s that’s, that’s my icon. You know, let’s put that in
[00:53:45] Rhys: No, it’s funny. Uh, you probably were about to say the same thing.
[00:53:50] Emma: I was, yeah.
[00:53:51] Rhys: That’s how we know, because we think the same thing. Okay. We literally about to say the same thing, but, um, so it’s funny. Cause when we, when, so now, um, we used to do it like this sense of like, oh, I’d I’d log in and then Emma would log in and then we’d run the session.
But now we’ve set up the studio, um, at my place and we have these little prompts, right? So like, um, you’ll never see this, right. This is a little bit of, a bit of behind the scenes cause, um, we’ll be, we’ll be sitting next to each other, but uh, where the camera is. And then like as little post-it notes, we put a dabakarn, moordip uh, and be quiet. Like, so dabakarn being slow down, moordip being like, hurry up and be quiet. Like if I’m talking too loud or she’s talking to loud. So again, like, it was good with time. Right. So she’ll notice that if we, you know, going behind time and, um, I’m just talking, talking, she’d be like pointing to moordip.
She’d be like, brilliant, really at the same time as she’s, you know, um, if she’s gone
[00:54:42] Emma: have one too many coffees
[00:54:43] Rhys: Dabakarn, dabakarn and dabakarn was I’m like dabakarn , slow down girl. You know? So yeah. We’ve got them prompts as well. Like yeah. Similar.
[00:54:50] Emma: But those are Noongar words if you don’t know.
[00:54:52] Rhys: Yeah. Sorry. There’s are Noongar words Dabakarn slow down, moordip hurry up. And then be quiet I didn’t know what the, no that required was confined to that English put, be quiet. Just quiet now.
[00:55:05] Brendon: I love that I do like, and I like that. I think that the fact that you two are in the same location when you facilitated that session, that was unexpected and, and nice. I really enjoyed the way you engaged with each other. And I didn’t notice the post-it notes. So I appreciate the behind the
[00:55:22] Rhys: Yeah.
[00:55:23] Brendon: scenes We’re, uh, we’re kind of towards the end of our time, unfortunately, and similar to acknowledge this! It feels like it’s gone very quickly. So thank you both. I’ve got some questions that I’m going to just throw at you, um, answer as makes sense in whatever order makes sense.
We just got the crying emoticon, um, reaction Rhys which brilliant. Um, we’ll run through these questions. So the first one is what fulfills you?
[00:55:57] Emma: Fulfill is Well, someone’s a massive word. Geez. Like,
[00:56:04] Rhys: what fulfills me?
[00:56:09] Emma: I mean, walking in nature brings me? joy.
[00:56:16] Rhys: There’s lots of answers to that. What fulfills me is people, people and connecting with people, um, in lots of different ways.
[00:56:40] Brendon: Wonderful.
[00:56:40] Rhys: is something that really interests me and makes me feel, I learn new things. I love, I love talking to people I’m connected with people and it adds to our culture broadly. That’s that’s just my initial reaction. It, my answers
[00:56:55] Brendon: no, I like it suddenly to reflect on, uh, the opposite. What frustrates you?
[00:57:00] Emma: Oh, I have a tiny rant inside me. So, so many businesses and organizations, um, I have to make the case for why they need to invest the time and resources into cultural training. And it just is like, if you want the work to get done, you have to put something behind it. You can’t just treat it as, um, this fringe thing.
Cause that’s what all it will ever be. So yeah. Bring it into core business. Anyway. There’s a more eloquent response to that, but
[00:57:27] Rhys: I was going to say like dogs barking at like three in the morning. Um,
[00:57:34] Emma: Fair
[00:57:35] Rhys: again, there’s so many lenses. I was like, oh yeah, what frustrates me? Um,
[00:57:40] Emma: Well, that was this rapid fire Reece. So like
[00:57:42] Rhys: I’m sorry man
[00:57:43] Emma: at
[00:57:43] Rhys: Dogs are 3am.
Yep. There you go. Sorry. Excuse me.
[00:57:47] Brendon: if you could recommend one book beyond from country with love that everyone should read what books should people be reading?
[00:57:56] Emma: Braiding Sweetgrass by Robin Wall Kimmer um, she’s a indigenous woman Potowami nation from the U S and a botanist. So it’s a beautiful book about like poetry and science and how, like, it has so many things we can learn about the natural system.
[00:58:17] Rhys: Lord of the Ring JRR Tolkien
[00:58:19] Brendon: Yeah, I think I’ve heard of that one. Uh, and I did see on your website earlier, Emma, that you have the bookshelf, which is got all the different books on. I quite like that, but to go and check that out, go and have a look at Emma’s website, go and have a look at Rhys’ website cause Rhys’ website that’s got cool art on it and check out the bookshelf. Um, what do you quick, rapid fire. Brendon. What do you most admire in those you work with, your clients?
[00:58:44] Emma: Generosity.
[00:58:45] Rhys: Transparency.
[00:58:47] Brendon: What’s your favorite question to ask
[00:58:51] Rhys: What do you like?
[00:58:53] Emma: What are you grateful for?
[00:58:56] Brendon: Uh, if you didn’t do what you do, what would you do?
[00:59:00] Emma: It’d be a politician and turn this ship around
[00:59:06] Rhys: I’ll be a pro gamer.
[00:59:08] Brendon: pro gamer and a politician. like it. Uh,
[00:59:14] Emma: That says so much about our personality why we work together
[00:59:19] Rhys: would say that being a politician is like being a pro gamer. Cause it’s all a game baby.
[00:59:26] Brendon: THere’s a link.
And if you could tell your younger self anything, what would you say to your younger self?
[00:59:37] Emma: as much as you think they do about like, like don’t, don’t worry about people pleasing so much.
[00:59:44] Rhys: I wouldn’t, I would almost not tell my younger self anything because I wouldn’t want to redirect where I am today. So I’d be like, I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t say I wouldn’t say anything cause I’m happy with, I don’t have any regrets. Right. I’m like, it’s all
[00:59:58] Emma: But Reese, like what about other young people? Would you tell, would you not tell any young person nothing?
[01:00:03] Rhys: I’ll tell him to like get off the phones. You know what I mean? I’ll tell him to like, spend some more time in like, you know, people,
balance.
[01:00:11] Brendon: Oh, I love it. That’s good. Well, thank you so much for joining me. Both of you really enjoyed it. I’ll put links to acknowledge this and websites in the, um, posts and, uh, hopefully lots of people reach out. I know you’ve got a goal, is it for 10,000 people to complete acknowledge this! Let’s I reckon you could make that a hundred thousand and the world would be a better place for it.
So get on to it
[01:00:36] Emma: We hit 10, that is the next goal. So we’ll, we’re on it.
[01:00:39] Brendon: Yeah, I put in my LinkedIn posts, people should do it. I will update that people must just go along do it. It’s two hours of your life. You’ll be much better for it. And if nothing else, you get to hang out with these two for an hour, a couple of hours, which is great.
[01:00:53] Emma: Thank you
[01:00:55] Brendon: Thank you.
[01:00:56] Rhys: Thanks, Brendon.